[78-L] Green Grow the Lilacs

[Cary Ginell]

Here's a version of "Green Grow the Laurels" by Sandy Denny that probably is close to what the original Scottish/Irish song sounded like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3OWOCwvjHU

Cary Ginell


On Jan 12, 2014, at 9:54 AM, Guyotsmith at aol.com wrote:

> I have a World transcription by Frank Luther which contains  the song. I've 
> never had the recording dates for those World transcriptions, but  I'll bet 
> you could date them. Some of Frank's verses are found in the Scottish  
> "Green Grow the Laurel" and not in the version Tex sang throughout his career,  
> certainly inspired by the Lynn Riggs play and his involvement in same. As 
> the  piece entered tradition, there were many alterations of both melody and 
> lyrics,  of course. My grandmother, born in 1883, told me a great deal about 
> the song,  and I wish I could recall all the details. I do know that she, 
> like our friend  Frank Luther, sang it as "change the green lilac to the 
> Oregon blue" or "to the  origin blue," or "to the orange and the blue," and not 
> "to the red, white, and  blue."  As to the actual recording of the song, I 
> would assume Frank  Luther's World transcription would be the earliest that we 
> presently know  of.  Interesting topic. 
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> 
> In a message dated 1/12/2014 12:43:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> soundthink at live.com writes:
> 
> Here are  the other 78 rpm versions I have of "Green Grown the Lilacs." All 
> are  post-war.
> 
> Maddox Bros. & Rose (Columbia 21099)
> Tex Ritter &  his Texans (Capitol 206)
> Johnnie Lee Wills & his Boys (Decca  46064)
> 
> Other versions in my library on LP or 45 include Harry  Belafonte, Ed 
> McCurdy, The Chad Mitchell Trio, Frank Luther, The Blue Sky Boys  (their reunion 
> for Rounder in the 1970s), The Jones Brothers, The Easy Riders,  Johnny 
> Cash, and Robin & the Folkstringers (a SESAC  45)
> 
> Cary
> 
> On Jan 12, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Cary Ginell  <soundthink at live.com> wrote:
> 
>> I found another version of it  by Tony Kraber on his Keynote 78 rpm album 
> "The Old Chisholm Trail" (Keynote  104), but that is the one record out of 
> three in the album that I am missing.  The liner notes give the same 
> derivation of "gringo," which may or may not be  true, but it's certainly an 
> interesting story.
>> 
>> I find it  interesting that there are no pre-WWII recordings of this 
> song, in light of  the fact that its life goes back a century before Ritter's 
> version.
>> 
>> Incidentally, Ritter didn't sing the song in "Green Grow the Lilacs."  He 
> did sing four numbers, but not this one. 
>> 
>> Cary
>> 
>> On Jan 12, 2014, at 9:30 AM, Guyotsmith at aol.com wrote:
>> 
>>> Cary, that's an interesting question. Frank Luther sang it  on  a World 
>>> transcription which would pre-date Tex's Capitol  recording - and Frank  
> much 
>>> later included the song on his  final Lp, in stereo, for Pickwick. Frank 
> also 
>>> sang the song  on my grandmother's NBC radio series. My grandmother and 
> Tex   
>>> Ritter, who also worked together in New York, liked to tell the  story 
> of that 
>>> song's popularity during the 1847 war with Mexico,  and how the 
> soldiers' 
>>> singing  "Green Grow the Lilacs" was  supposedly misinterpreted by the 
> Mexican 
>>> troops,  resulting  in their calling the Americans "gringo" (corrupted 
> from 
>>> "green  grow").  In reality, the term "gringo" is probably a corruption 
> of  
>>> "griego," as you know  - but both my grandmother and Tex  spent decades 
> telling 
>>> the "Green Grow the  Lilacs" story,  and I shared it with my own 
> students 
>>> this past week. 
>>> 
>>> Whereas Tex sings "....and change the green lilacs for the   red, white, 
> and 
>>> blue,"  Frank Luther has it "...and change  the green lilacs  to the 
> Oregon 
>>> blue."  Others sing it  as "the orange and the blue."   Had I been 
> possessed 
>>> of  sufficient intelligence in my younger days, I would have  recorded 
> my  
>>> grandmother singing that song - but I didn't. Her melody - and  Frank  
> Luther's 
>>> - differed from Tex's. Whether Tex sang it  as Lynn Riggs wanted it  
> sung, or 
>>> whether he had known the  song as a youth in Texas, I don't know. He  
>>> sometimes called  it his favorite song.  How many questions would we ask 
> if  we  
>>> could go back in time! 
>>> 
>>> Have a wonderful  week ahead.
>>> 
>>> Jonathan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In a message dated 1/12/2014 11:51:39 A.M. Eastern Standard  Time,  
>>> soundthink at live.com writes:
>>> 
>>> Does  anyone know of recordings of the song "Green Grow the Lilacs" 
> that  
>>> predates  Tex Ritter's 1945 Capitol version? The song was  the basis for 
> Lynn 
>>> Riggs' 1931  play, which consisted  entirely of traditional folk songs. 
>>> Rodgers &   Hammerstein later revamped the story, replaced the folk 
> songs with  
>>> their own  compositions, and transformed Broadway with the  resulting 
> show, 
>>> "Oklahoma!"  but I find the orignal show  intriguing. I find no 
> recordings of 
>>> "Green Grow  the Lilacs"  in Russell so wonder if any others were 
> recorded.
>>> 
>>> Cary  Ginell
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>> 
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