[78-L] Green Grow the Lilacs

Sun Jan 12 15:54:22 PST 2014

there are versions of the song in various folk song collection BOOKS - I would guess there are
non-commercial field recordings in various archives, such as Library of Congress.
see: http://www.ibiblio.org/keefer/kwframe.htm

Best wishes, Thomas.

-----Original Message-----
From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
[mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com]On Behalf Of Cary Ginell
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 1:40 PM
To: 78-L Mail List
Subject: Re: [78-L] Green Grow the Lilacs

Here's a version of "Green Grow the Laurels" by Sandy Denny that probably is close to what the original Scottish/Irish song
sounded like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3OWOCwvjHU

Cary Ginell

On Jan 12, 2014, at 9:54 AM, Guyotsmith at aol.com wrote:

> I have a World transcription by Frank Luther which contains  the song. I've
> never had the recording dates for those World transcriptions, but  I'll bet
> you could date them. Some of Frank's verses are found in the Scottish
> "Green Grow the Laurel" and not in the version Tex sang throughout his career,
> certainly inspired by the Lynn Riggs play and his involvement in same. As
> the  piece entered tradition, there were many alterations of both melody and
> lyrics,  of course. My grandmother, born in 1883, told me a great deal about
> the song,  and I wish I could recall all the details. I do know that she,
> like our friend  Frank Luther, sang it as "change the green lilac to the
> Oregon blue" or "to the  origin blue," or "to the orange and the blue," and not
> "to the red, white, and  blue."  As to the actual recording of the song, I
> would assume Frank  Luther's World transcription would be the earliest that we
> presently know  of.  Interesting topic.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> In a message dated 1/12/2014 12:43:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> soundthink at live.com writes:
>
> Here are  the other 78 rpm versions I have of "Green Grown the Lilacs." All
> are  post-war.
>
> Maddox Bros. & Rose (Columbia 21099)
> Tex Ritter &  his Texans (Capitol 206)
> Johnnie Lee Wills & his Boys (Decca  46064)
>
> Other versions in my library on LP or 45 include Harry  Belafonte, Ed
> McCurdy, The Chad Mitchell Trio, Frank Luther, The Blue Sky Boys  (their reunion
> for Rounder in the 1970s), The Jones Brothers, The Easy Riders,  Johnny
> Cash, and Robin & the Folkstringers (a SESAC  45)
>
> Cary
>
> On Jan 12, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Cary Ginell  <soundthink at live.com> wrote:
>
>> I found another version of it  by Tony Kraber on his Keynote 78 rpm album
> "The Old Chisholm Trail" (Keynote  104), but that is the one record out of
> three in the album that I am missing.  The liner notes give the same
> derivation of "gringo," which may or may not be  true, but it's certainly an
> interesting story.
>>
>> I find it  interesting that there are no pre-WWII recordings of this
> song, in light of  the fact that its life goes back a century before Ritter's
> version.
>>
>> Incidentally, Ritter didn't sing the song in "Green Grow the Lilacs."  He
> did sing four numbers, but not this one.
>>
>> Cary
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2014, at 9:30 AM, Guyotsmith at aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> Cary, that's an interesting question. Frank Luther sang it  on  a World
>>> transcription which would pre-date Tex's Capitol  recording - and Frank
> much
>>> later included the song on his  final Lp, in stereo, for Pickwick. Frank
> also
>>> sang the song  on my grandmother's NBC radio series. My grandmother and
> Tex
>>> Ritter, who also worked together in New York, liked to tell the  story
> of that
>>> song's popularity during the 1847 war with Mexico,  and how the
> soldiers'
>>> singing  "Green Grow the Lilacs" was  supposedly misinterpreted by the
> Mexican
>>> troops,  resulting  in their calling the Americans "gringo" (corrupted
> from
>>> "green  grow").  In reality, the term "gringo" is probably a corruption
> of
>>> "griego," as you know  - but both my grandmother and Tex  spent decades
> telling
>>> the "Green Grow the  Lilacs" story,  and I shared it with my own
> students
>>> this past week.
>>>
>>> Whereas Tex sings "....and change the green lilacs for the   red, white,
> and
>>> blue,"  Frank Luther has it "...and change  the green lilacs  to the
> Oregon
>>> blue."  Others sing it  as "the orange and the blue."   Had I been
> possessed
>>> of  sufficient intelligence in my younger days, I would have  recorded
> my
>>> grandmother singing that song - but I didn't. Her melody - and  Frank
> Luther's
>>> - differed from Tex's. Whether Tex sang it  as Lynn Riggs wanted it
> sung, or
>>> whether he had known the  song as a youth in Texas, I don't know. He
>>> sometimes called  it his favorite song.  How many questions would we ask
> if  we
>>> could go back in time!
>>>
>>> Have a wonderful  week ahead.
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 1/12/2014 11:51:39 A.M. Eastern Standard  Time,
>>> soundthink at live.com writes:
>>>
>>> Does  anyone know of recordings of the song "Green Grow the Lilacs"
> that
>>> predates  Tex Ritter's 1945 Capitol version? The song was  the basis for
> Lynn
>>> Riggs' 1931  play, which consisted  entirely of traditional folk songs.
>>> Rodgers &   Hammerstein later revamped the story, replaced the folk
> songs with
>>> their own  compositions, and transformed Broadway with the  resulting
> show,
>>> "Oklahoma!"  but I find the orignal show  intriguing. I find no
> recordings of
>>> "Green Grow  the Lilacs"  in Russell so wonder if any others were
> recorded.
>>>
>>> Cary  Ginell
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>>
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