[78-L] Fake stereo

Fri Mar 1 12:39:31 PST 2013

Then there were "mono" lps which turned out to be stereo. I found a few of 
these on Everest's Piano Roll series and 101 Strings, and didn't know they were 
stereo till years later. Cheapskates only bothered to cut stereo masters!

dl

On 3/1/2013 3:27 PM, Cary Ginell wrote:
>
> Then were releases whose catalog numbers implied that they were fake stereo, only to reveal TRUE stereo when it was played.
> I believe I recall some things on RCA Camden that were like this.
> Cary Ginell
>
>> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 15:26:03 -0500
>> From: dlennick at sympatico.ca
>> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Fake stereo
>>
>> Then there were reissues, in mono, which were taken by mixing down fake stereo
>> masters. Think it didn't happen? RCA did this with an Eddie Fisher compilation
>> and one or two cast albums.
>>
>> Fake stereo issues that actually sounded good, to me:
>>
>> QUIET VILLAGE..Les Baxter
>> BEST OF HUGO WINTERHALTER
>>
>> I wouldn't swear that the entire lp was good in either case, but for the few
>> cuts we used on air, they sounded fine.
>>
>> dl
>>
>> On 3/1/2013 3:16 PM, Michael Biel wrote:
>>> Let me explain something about echo/reverb vs. tone controls and comb
>>> filtering.  There is a slight amount of phase shifting whenever tone
>>> controls are used.  ANY tone control.  In electronic terms this phase
>>> shift is a slight delay measured in microseconds.  (This includes
>>> inherent equalization like RIAA, and is why RIAA playback
>>> re-equalization must be done in the analog domain, NOT in the digital
>>> domain.  We had a tutorial about this at ARSC a couple of years ago.
>>> You cannot feed a flat LP audio into your computer and expect any but
>>> the very expensive programs to put in the RIAA equalization.)  It is
>>> also why the Vinylphools do not have variable tone controls in their
>>> systems.  Changing the tone can affect the "soundstage" of 2 or 3-mic
>>> stereo like Mercury Living Presence, Decca/London blue-backs, or RCA
>>> Living Stereo which depends on phase relationships.  Overdub or
>>> multitrack stereo are not affected as much, but these guys hate that
>>> stuff anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, when comb filtering is done, unless it is done so the left and right
>>> channel filters match exactly in a mirror image to each other, you
>>> cannot re-combine the two channels without having some phase
>>> cancellation.  That would be the "pingy" effect you mention, I think.
>>> I've never heard that word used except in ping-pong which is wide motion
>>> between channels.
>>>
>>> The phase-delay of comb filtering is NOT the same as echo or reverb.
>>> This is delaying the sound to the point that you can hear the delay.
>>> Tone controls do not delay the sound that much.  Echo is where the
>>> distinct delays are discretely heard, like in tape-delay.  Reverb is
>>> where the repetition delays are so dense that they are not discretely
>>> heard.  Much of what RCA Victor used on pop records was echo, hence the
>>> Harry Belefonte Quartette.  They also tended to roll off the bass on the
>>> left and roll it up on the right along with a roll-off of the highs.
>>> Capitol Dupohonic tended to do more comb filtering and reverb.  I
>>> wouldn't be surprised if they might sometimes have used the underground
>>> natural chambers by the Capitol Tower, but otherwise reverb was usually
>>> done with the Neumann Plate or the AKG Springs
>>>
>>> Echo or reverb cannot be removed.  Rolling off can usually be undone,
>>> and comb filtering can sometimes be recombined IF done with that in
>>> mind.  Sometimes the engineers DID check the compatibility.
>>>
>>> Mike BIel  mbiel at mbiel.com
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Fake stereo
>>> From: Ryan Wolfe<nextset4 at yahoo.com>
>>> Date: Fri, March 01, 2013 2:38 pm
>>> To: 78-L Mail List<78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>>>
>>> I guess that figures, that Capitol would put their classical stuff
>>> through Duophonic.  Yuck.
>>>
>>> It's hard to even reconvert Duophonic back to true mono...you can't fold
>>> it down , the pingy airplane hangar effect remains.
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>    From: Royal Pemberton<ampex354 at gmail.com>
>>> To: 78-L Mail List<78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 10:41 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Fake stereo
>>>
>>> AFAIK there are some classical albums which did use that L/R delay, and
>>> they are on Capitol (whether on Capitol or Angel I can't say as what I
>>> heard was from an excerpt on the sampler/promo that first hawked
>>> Duophonic).
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Ryan Wolfe<nextset4 at yahoo.com>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> Somewhere, I read an account by guy charged with what were the first fake
>>>> stereo releases for RCA.
>>>>
>>>> He had Toscanini stuff to to work with and described his laborious and
>>>> time consuming attempts
>>>> manipulating a comb filter to try to take the mono sources and put them
>>>> into a convincing and somewhat varied stereo presentation.
>>>> Then RCA wanted him to do that with all their stuff, which was going to be
>>>> impractical, so he / they opted for something easier.
>>>>
>>>> I've never heard a classical album that took a mono source and put it on
>>>>    a true L / R delay, just the ones that use the bass in one channel  /
>>>> treble in the other approach.  Including things like Toscanini.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>    From: Ted Kneebone<tkneebone1 at abe.midco.net>
>>>> To: 78-l<78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 8:06 AM
>>>> Subject: [78-L] Fake stereo
>>>>
>>>> I have at least one LP of Glenn Miller done in
>>>> what is called "enhanced" stereo, or something
>>>> like that.  One channel is delayed slightly.  The
>>>> effect is supposed to sound like an echo.  It
>>>> really ruins what was perfectly good mono sound --
>>>> and surely is not stereo.
>>>>      When i play this disc, I listen to only one
>>>> channel.  That's the only way it makes sense.
>>>>      I think they tried this "enhanced" process with
>>>> some of the Toscanini recordings.  If the Miller
>>>> records are a sample, I would not own the Toscanini.
>>>>      Ted
>>>> Ted Kneebone
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