[78-L] Fake stereo

[Cary Ginell]

Then were releases whose catalog numbers implied that they were fake stereo, only to reveal TRUE stereo when it was played. 
I believe I recall some things on RCA Camden that were like this.
Cary Ginell

> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 15:26:03 -0500
> From: dlennick at sympatico.ca
> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Fake stereo
> 
> Then there were reissues, in mono, which were taken by mixing down fake stereo 
> masters. Think it didn't happen? RCA did this with an Eddie Fisher compilation 
> and one or two cast albums.
> 
> Fake stereo issues that actually sounded good, to me:
> 
> QUIET VILLAGE..Les Baxter
> BEST OF HUGO WINTERHALTER
> 
> I wouldn't swear that the entire lp was good in either case, but for the few 
> cuts we used on air, they sounded fine.
> 
> dl
> 
> On 3/1/2013 3:16 PM, Michael Biel wrote:
> > Let me explain something about echo/reverb vs. tone controls and comb
> > filtering.  There is a slight amount of phase shifting whenever tone
> > controls are used.  ANY tone control.  In electronic terms this phase
> > shift is a slight delay measured in microseconds.  (This includes
> > inherent equalization like RIAA, and is why RIAA playback
> > re-equalization must be done in the analog domain, NOT in the digital
> > domain.  We had a tutorial about this at ARSC a couple of years ago.
> > You cannot feed a flat LP audio into your computer and expect any but
> > the very expensive programs to put in the RIAA equalization.)  It is
> > also why the Vinylphools do not have variable tone controls in their
> > systems.  Changing the tone can affect the "soundstage" of 2 or 3-mic
> > stereo like Mercury Living Presence, Decca/London blue-backs, or RCA
> > Living Stereo which depends on phase relationships.  Overdub or
> > multitrack stereo are not affected as much, but these guys hate that
> > stuff anyway.
> >
> >
> > So, when comb filtering is done, unless it is done so the left and right
> > channel filters match exactly in a mirror image to each other, you
> > cannot re-combine the two channels without having some phase
> > cancellation.  That would be the "pingy" effect you mention, I think.
> > I've never heard that word used except in ping-pong which is wide motion
> > between channels.
> >
> > The phase-delay of comb filtering is NOT the same as echo or reverb.
> > This is delaying the sound to the point that you can hear the delay.
> > Tone controls do not delay the sound that much.  Echo is where the
> > distinct delays are discretely heard, like in tape-delay.  Reverb is
> > where the repetition delays are so dense that they are not discretely
> > heard.  Much of what RCA Victor used on pop records was echo, hence the
> > Harry Belefonte Quartette.  They also tended to roll off the bass on the
> > left and roll it up on the right along with a roll-off of the highs.
> > Capitol Dupohonic tended to do more comb filtering and reverb.  I
> > wouldn't be surprised if they might sometimes have used the underground
> > natural chambers by the Capitol Tower, but otherwise reverb was usually
> > done with the Neumann Plate or the AKG Springs
> >
> > Echo or reverb cannot be removed.  Rolling off can usually be undone,
> > and comb filtering can sometimes be recombined IF done with that in
> > mind.  Sometimes the engineers DID check the compatibility.
> >
> > Mike BIel  mbiel at mbiel.com
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: [78-L] Fake stereo
> > From: Ryan Wolfe<nextset4 at yahoo.com>
> > Date: Fri, March 01, 2013 2:38 pm
> > To: 78-L Mail List<78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> >
> > I guess that figures, that Capitol would put their classical stuff
> > through Duophonic.  Yuck.
> >
> > It's hard to even reconvert Duophonic back to true mono...you can't fold
> > it down , the pingy airplane hangar effect remains.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >   From: Royal Pemberton<ampex354 at gmail.com>
> > To: 78-L Mail List<78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> > Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 10:41 AM
> > Subject: Re: [78-L] Fake stereo
> >
> > AFAIK there are some classical albums which did use that L/R delay, and
> > they are on Capitol (whether on Capitol or Angel I can't say as what I
> > heard was from an excerpt on the sampler/promo that first hawked
> > Duophonic).
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Ryan Wolfe<nextset4 at yahoo.com>  wrote:
> >
> >> Somewhere, I read an account by guy charged with what were the first fake
> >> stereo releases for RCA.
> >>
> >> He had Toscanini stuff to to work with and described his laborious and
> >> time consuming attempts
> >> manipulating a comb filter to try to take the mono sources and put them
> >> into a convincing and somewhat varied stereo presentation.
> >> Then RCA wanted him to do that with all their stuff, which was going to be
> >> impractical, so he / they opted for something easier.
> >>
> >> I've never heard a classical album that took a mono source and put it on
> >>   a true L / R delay, just the ones that use the bass in one channel  /
> >> treble in the other approach.  Including things like Toscanini.
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>   From: Ted Kneebone<tkneebone1 at abe.midco.net>
> >> To: 78-l<78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> >> Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 8:06 AM
> >> Subject: [78-L] Fake stereo
> >>
> >> I have at least one LP of Glenn Miller done in
> >> what is called "enhanced" stereo, or something
> >> like that.  One channel is delayed slightly.  The
> >> effect is supposed to sound like an echo.  It
> >> really ruins what was perfectly good mono sound --
> >> and surely is not stereo.
> >>     When i play this disc, I listen to only one
> >> channel.  That's the only way it makes sense.
> >>     I think they tried this "enhanced" process with
> >> some of the Toscanini recordings.  If the Miller
> >> records are a sample, I would not own the Toscanini.
> >>     Ted
> >> Ted Kneebone
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