[78-L] Victor Scroll Labels in Canada?

[david.diehl at hensteeth.com]

Re: the possibility of Compo; its NYC studio was used to record sides for Pathe in late 1926 and early 1927. The sides I've heard (mostly the Red Heads) are slightly under recorded but very clear. They don't sound like WE at all. Whether the same equipment was still in use over a year earlier, one can only speculate...which we love to do.
 DJD
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-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Williams [mailto:jazzhunter at collector.org]
Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 08:32 PM
To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
Subject: Re: [78-L] Victor Scroll Labels in Canada?

Herbert Berliner was using Marsh Equipment? I thought the type of equipmentbeing used was never established, but that the Canadian recordings soundedbetter than the US Marsh stuff, even better than early Pallaphotophone.Sutton postulates that the first Victor tests, which are not documentedeither at Western Electric, nor as any WE or GE field test, were done byCompo.. There are only negative implications, where the Electric tests wereNOT done..I have 19571, it seems to me they are the same orchestra. The electric sidesounds like Jack Shilkret or the International Novelty Orchestra playingvery carefully, possibly not being used to the mic and seating arrangement.However several researchers have indeed suggested the Electric was recordedin Montreal. Sound balance-wise a good comparison is with Waring's "LittlePeach" recorded April 2nd for 19636, which may have been the firstINTERNATIONAL Victor black label electric release, after 19626, which wasonly regional. I have this record in a very clean E condition.Compo DID have a New York office, which probably was electrically-equipped.Also, though Victor did not have an Electric studio until March, there was astudio at Western Electric, and "You and I" may have been done there as aWestern Electric demo.. The electric side sounds like early Victor; withcorrect mic resonance, EQ, and all. Since Victor equipment was not beingused under any scenario for the electric side of 19571, then it wouldn'thave to be "Victor Electric speed" thus the pitch would be off. The acousticside of 19571 sounds like Victor acoustic, such as Jack Shilkret's "CharleyMy Boy" 19420. This is all speculation, while they were alive the rightpeople were not asked the right questions about this change to electric... Steve Williams .Message: 7Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 20:57:32 -0400From: David Lennick Subject: Re: [78-L] Victor Scroll Labels in Canada?To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed>Compo issued electricals before other labels, but they were from MarshLabs. >Tell me more about Compo doing Victor's electrical tests!>There's an interesting hybrid disc released only in Canada, purporting tobe >Jack Shilkret's Orchestra doing YOU AND I acoustically on one side (bluelabel) >and electrically on the other (black label). The odd thing is that they are>likely not the same orchestra at all, and the electrical side appears to beof >Canadian origin but nobody's found out which orchestra did it. It sounds tome >as if someone copied the arrangement from the acoustical side and had alocal >orchestra try and duplicate it. It also sounds as if the transcriber playedthe >acoustical version at the wrong speed because the sides don't match inpitch, >and not in an "acousticals play faster" fashion.dlOn 4/3/2012 8:47 PM, Mike Daley wrote:> Except that it was Emile Berliner's son Herbert that started Compo, in> direct competition with his father.> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compo_Company>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Steve Williamswrote:>> Remember that this is tied in with introduction of electric recording.In>> Canada from the get-go electrically-recorded Victors identified the new>> process on the label as "V.E. Process", the VE in an oblong beingrequired>> under the Western Electric contract to identify recordings made withtheir>> patented method. Also the labels generally switched from blue to black,>> though continuing and reissued acoustic releases used a black label. Ihave>> seen a blue "VE Process" label on a standard 10" dance band release, but>> that's rare.. Overall however both acoustic and Electric releases usedthe>> same batwing style.>>>> However, in the States, to protect the backlog of Acoustic recordings>> (though the story goes a bit deeper than that) electric releases were not>> acknowledged in any way, except for the VE symbol embedded in the runout>> area. When Victor decided to admit to the superior Electric process in>> November 1925 they did it with a bang, ads in the papers, store flyersetc.>> and trademarked it as "Orthophonic." At this time, to emphasise the big>> improvement, they introduced the scroll (or Octagon) label with the "VE"at>> the top. Canada continued to use the batwing label except "VE Process"was>> changed to "VE Orthophonic" and later just "Orthophonic" with a tiny VE>> symbol above that. There was no big announcement of a change in Canadian>> releases, therefore probably that's why there was no big change in label>> style.>>>> Just by the way, The Compo Company in Montreal had North America's first>> electric studio actually releasing product in 1924. The earliest Victor>> electric tests were done by Canadian Compo, which was founded by Berliner>> after he left Victor. So Canada has a special place in the history of>> electric recording, along with Victor actually acknowledging Electric>> releases before the US. Canadian Victor was AHEAD of the US, not"Behind">> in doing anything...>>>> ..Steve Williams ..>>>> Message: 9>> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 08:57:21 -0400>> From: David Lennick>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Victor Scroll Labels in Canada?>> To: 78-L Mail List<78-l at klickitat.78online.com>>> Message-ID:>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed>>>>> Nope, Canada never had them. Maybe a slightly modified scroll for the>> Program>>> Transcriptions, but for general releases Canadian Victor stuck withBatwing>>>>> right through 1946. We were even a year late changing that to RCAVictor,>> we>>> kept Buff Bluebird into 1939 and used the Staff label for only about six>> months>>> as well. The first Scroll label in Canada might have been on the lpNilsson>>>>> Schmilsson.>>>> dl>>>> On 4/3/2012 1:30 AM, Clifford Bolling wrote:>>> In the U.S., Victor labels evolved from Batwing to Scroll to Ring design>> for their labels.>>> Did the Scroll label get skipped for Canadian pressings and go straight>> from Batwing to Rings??>>> I have some Canadian pressed 'HIS MASTER'S VOICE/VICTOR' label records>> that I know>>> were made in the 1940s that are still Batwing, but I don't recall ever>> seeing Canadian Scroll design labels.>>>>>> http://PDX78s.cdbpdx.com/CanSC/>>>>>> Thanks! CDB>>>>>>------------------------------_______________________________________________78-L mailing list78-L at klickitat.78online.comhttp://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-lEnd of 78-L Digest, Vol 43, Issue 7***********************************_______________________________________________78-L mailing list78-L at klickitat.78online.comhttp://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l