[78-L] Victor Scroll Labels in Canada?

Wed Apr 4 18:32:20 PDT 2012

Herbert Berliner was using Marsh Equipment?  I thought the type of equipment
being used was never established, but that the Canadian recordings sounded
better than the US Marsh stuff, even better than early Pallaphotophone.
Sutton postulates that the first Victor tests, which are not documented
either at Western Electric, nor as any WE or GE field test, were done by
Compo.. There are only negative implications, where the Electric tests were
NOT done..

I have 19571, it seems to me they are the same orchestra. The electric side
sounds like Jack Shilkret or the International Novelty Orchestra playing
very carefully, possibly not being used to the mic and seating arrangement.
However several researchers have indeed suggested the Electric was recorded
in Montreal. Sound balance-wise a good comparison is with Waring's "Little
Peach" recorded April 2nd for 19636, which may have been the first
INTERNATIONAL Victor black label electric release, after 19626, which was
only regional.  I have this record in a very clean E condition.

Compo DID have a New York office, which probably was electrically-equipped.
Also, though Victor did not have an Electric studio until March, there was a
studio at Western Electric, and "You and I" may have been done there as a
Western Electric demo.. The electric side sounds like early Victor; with
correct mic resonance, EQ, and all. Since Victor equipment was not being
used under any scenario for the electric side of 19571, then it wouldn't
have to be "Victor Electric speed" thus the pitch would be off. The acoustic
side of 19571 sounds like Victor acoustic, such as Jack Shilkret's "Charley
My Boy" 19420.  This is all speculation, while they were alive the right
people were not asked the right questions about this change to electric.

..  Steve Williams  .

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 20:57:32 -0400
From: David Lennick <dlennick at sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [78-L] Victor Scroll Labels in Canada?
To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP5661CD7F488D122C22ED62BD320 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed

>Compo issued electricals before other labels, but they were from Marsh
Labs. 
>Tell me more about Compo doing Victor's electrical tests!
>There's an interesting hybrid disc released only in Canada, purporting to
be 
>Jack Shilkret's Orchestra doing YOU AND I acoustically on one side (blue
label) 
>and electrically on the other (black label). The odd thing is that they are

>likely not the same orchestra at all, and the electrical side appears to be
of 
>Canadian origin but nobody's found out which orchestra did it. It sounds to
me 
>as if someone copied the arrangement from the acoustical side and had a
local 
>orchestra try and duplicate it. It also sounds as if the transcriber played
the 
>acoustical version at the wrong speed because the sides don't match in
pitch, 
>and not in an "acousticals play faster" fashion.

dl

On 4/3/2012 8:47 PM, Mike Daley wrote:
> Except that it was Emile Berliner's son Herbert that started Compo, in
> direct competition with his father.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compo_Company
>
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Steve Williams<jazzhunter at collector.org>
wrote:
>> Remember that this is tied in with introduction of electric recording.
In
>> Canada from the get-go electrically-recorded Victors identified the new
>> process on the label as "V.E. Process", the VE in an oblong being
required
>> under the Western Electric contract to identify recordings made with
their
>> patented method.  Also the labels generally switched from blue to black,
>> though continuing and reissued acoustic releases used a black label.  I
have
>> seen a blue "VE Process" label on a standard 10" dance band release, but
>> that's rare.. Overall however both acoustic and Electric releases used
the
>> same batwing style.
>>
>> However, in the States, to protect the backlog of Acoustic recordings
>> (though the story goes a bit deeper than that) electric releases were not
>> acknowledged in any way, except for the VE symbol embedded in the runout
>> area.  When Victor decided to admit to the superior Electric process in
>> November 1925 they did it with a bang, ads in the papers, store flyers
etc.
>> and trademarked it as "Orthophonic."  At this time, to emphasise the big
>> improvement, they introduced the scroll (or Octagon) label with the "VE"
at
>> the top.  Canada continued to use the batwing label except "VE Process"
was
>> changed to "VE Orthophonic" and later just "Orthophonic" with a tiny VE
>> symbol above that. There was no big announcement of a change in Canadian
>> releases, therefore probably that's why there was no big change in label
>> style.
>>
>> Just by the way, The Compo Company in Montreal had North America's first
>> electric studio actually releasing product in 1924.  The earliest Victor
>> electric tests were done by Canadian Compo, which was founded by Berliner
>> after he left Victor.  So Canada has a special place in the history of
>> electric recording, along with Victor actually acknowledging Electric
>> releases before the US.  Canadian Victor was AHEAD of the US, not
"Behind"
>> in doing anything...
>>
>> ..Steve Williams  ..
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 08:57:21 -0400
>> From: David Lennick<dlennick at sympatico.ca>
>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Victor Scroll Labels in Canada?
>> To: 78-L Mail List<78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>> Message-ID:<BLU0-SMTP495DF80E6A0182B6A40284BD4D0 at phx.gbl>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed
>>
>>> Nope, Canada never had them. Maybe a slightly modified scroll for the
>> Program
>>> Transcriptions, but for general releases Canadian Victor stuck with
Batwing
>>
>>> right through 1946. We were even a year late changing that to RCA
Victor,
>> we
>>> kept Buff Bluebird into 1939 and used the Staff label for only about six
>> months
>>> as well. The first Scroll label in Canada might have been on the lp
Nilsson
>>
>>> Schmilsson.
>>
>> dl
>>
>> On 4/3/2012 1:30 AM, Clifford Bolling wrote:
>>> In the U.S., Victor labels evolved from Batwing to Scroll to Ring design
>> for their labels.
>>> Did the Scroll label get skipped for Canadian pressings and go straight
>> from Batwing to Rings??
>>> I have some Canadian pressed 'HIS MASTER'S VOICE/VICTOR' label records
>> that I know
>>> were made in the 1940s that are still Batwing, but I don't recall ever
>> seeing Canadian Scroll design labels.
>>>
>>> http://PDX78s.cdbpdx.com/CanSC/
>>>
>>> Thanks!  CDB
>>
>>
>>

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
78-L mailing list
78-L at klickitat.78online.com
http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l

End of 78-L Digest, Vol 43, Issue 7
***********************************