[78-L] grading 78s with lamination cracks

[Cary Ginell]

Many people would consider any record with a crack as being in Fair or Poor condition because, as far as they are concerned, it is unplayable and therefore, useless to them. There are collectors, however, who are good at repairing records, so they would be more willing to purchase a record that would otherwise be in E+ condition if not for the crack. If that person sees a record like this that has been downgraded as V+ (with the crack mentioned), there's no way to know whether the record itself was in that condition or that it has been downgraded because of the crack. The condition of the surface without the defect is what the record grade should represent, but if you "downgrade the whole record," as has been suggested, then there could be confusion as to which was the actual grade. If you look at Kurt Nauck's detailed grading analysis on his website, you will note that the grades reflect the groove wear only. Any other defects, including cracks, chips, warps, woofs, or what have you, are all mentioned separately. I'm wondering if Kurt can clarify his position as to whether a grade should be lowered because of these other cosmetic and/or deleterious defects.
 
Cary Ginell
 

> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:33:23 +0100
> From: ekluwer at gmail.com
> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> Subject: Re: [78-L] grading 78s with lamination cracks
> 
> Yes, I also would mention the defect separately, but if the surface
> (without the defect) would be graded say E+, I still would down grade the
> whole record
> 
> Erwin
> 
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Matthew Duncan
> <recordgeek334578 at yahoo.com>wrote:
> 
> > Yes, I agree - separating the condition from the defect is the best and
> > most honest way.
> >
> > For example, I wouldn't be impressed if I bought a 78 from Ebay or from a
> > set sale list graded as V+ that was actually E+ with a crack.that
> >
> > Easiest all round to say ...'E+ with 2" hc, nap' ...or similar.
> >
> > I tend to stay away from records with cracks or bad digs where possible as
> > I try to get 'keepers' rather than having to upgrade things. Having said
> > that, some records are so rare that I still buy them if they have said
> > defects, I just bid accordingly.
> >
> >
> > Different collectors have their own opinions on all these aspects, I guess.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Matthew
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Cary Ginell <soundthink at live.com>
> > To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011, 17:17
> > Subject: Re: [78-L] grading 78s with lamination cracks
> >
> >
> > I tend to favor separating the condition of the record from defects such
> > as cracks and chips. To me, the condition of a record determines its
> > overall wear. A record can be E but have a hairline crack in it. To me,
> > this more accurately describes a record than by just saying V+ with a
> > crack. If I received a record described that way, the wear would appear to
> > be undergraded. It's not like if it were a coin, where a defect such as
> > lack of luster or a ding actually devalues the condition. Records have an
> > added purpose for being able to be played. A record should be graded as if
> > the crack were not there, but noted accordingly. At least that's how I
> > would do it. The same goes for a pit or a dig. I have many records that
> > play great except for a flaw like this. I might bid on such a record if it
> > were otherwise in excellent condition, so long as the defect and its effect
> > on playing were noted in detail.
> >
> > Cary Ginell
> >
> >
> > > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 12:54:32 +0100
> > > From: ekluwer at gmail.com
> > > To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> > > Subject: Re: [78-L] grading 78s with lamination cracks
> > >
> > > Causes: external pressure , temperature/humidity changes, etc
> > >
> > > In my opinion one has to lower the grade a notch or two...
> > >
> > > Erwin
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Rod Brown <raudiobrown at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm afraid this issue has probably been discussed roughly a bazillion
> > times
> > > > already. If there's enough patience for one more go-round, I'd be
> > > > interested to hear how list members take laminate cracks into account
> > when
> > > > grading 78s for sale. On-list or off is equally fine with me.
> > > >
> > > > I've got some Columbias, Brunswicks and Okehs that I'll be selling a
> > few
> > > > weeks hence, and many are in beautiful shape except for a few each of
> > these
> > > > blessed cracks. Does one simply lower them from E- to VG+?
> > > >
> > > > Do we have theories (or facts) on what causes 'em?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for any advice, clues, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Rod
> > > > _______________________________________________
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