[78-L] Question 1812 Overture

Sun Apr 3 06:16:53 PDT 2011

David, my Weingartner Columbia green label Beethoven 9 symphonies might be on 
Entre (as a reissue) instead of the regular Columbia blue label but I haven't 
played it in a good year so I'd have to go digging though my classical LP's to 
find it one day if I ever decide to look for it. Didn't think he'd be on Entre 
but I guess he was at least for this set anyway. My other Entre record (a single 
disc of a symphony, orchestra & conductor I can't think of without looking for 
the album) is on the grey label. I've got so many 78's, 45's & LP's that I 
honestly can't remember all of them without digging through the collection, some 
of which I've never played since I aquired them in one way or another though the 
35 years that I've been a record collector a.k.a vinyl jumkie. I really don't 
think that it's my 52 years of age but rather the huge size of it. A rough guess 
might be a hundred thousand discs (with duplicates included) but I might have 
more than that. I honestly don't know how many records I've got. Just that it 
fills up 2 bedrooms, part of the living room, some of the hallways (yes it's all 
on shelves) plus all of a 2 car garage. In other words my 1999 Toyota pickup 
truck is parked outside in the driveway. Thats why my acummulating (to call it 
that) of new (to me) listening treasures has slowed way down from what it used 
to be. Yes I still go to the Austin & Houston record collector shows but must of 
my other tracking down (or hunting for records) has almost stopped with the 
exception of buys on Ebay from time to time. Other than visiting Black Dog 
Records one time last year (a collector shop on Shepherd close to hwy 59 & they 
never have 78's) I haven't tried to visit whats left of the Houston record 
collector shops in several years. Nor do I go for record hauls of any size like 
I used to do in the past as I honestly don't have room unless I wanted to rent 
climate controlled space on west 34th street which I've thought about but it can 
get expensive if I rented more than one 10x10 or a 20x20 space every month to 
store more rocords so I haven't done that & don't intend to anytime soon at 
least not for another year or two. Still have some space in my bedroom (the one 
I sleep in) at least. The dining area is full of records on shelves & I'm not 
putting them in the bathroom, kitchen or the attic!! However the living room has 
some space for a few shelves but then I'd only have a path to walk through plus 
a place for my computer.....

________________________________
From: David Lennick <dlennick at sympatico.ca>
To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 6:39:32 PM
Subject: Re: [78-L] Question 1812 Overture

Oh..one odd thing Remington did was turn out a full price "prestige" label 
called Masterseal. The recordings were no better at $6 than they were at $2 and 
in at least one instance, it was exactly the same LP (Fritz Busch conducting a 
couple of symphonies). The Masterseals were pressed by RCA and came in a padded 
gatefold album, but with no inner sleeve or raised edges, so they always turn 
up scratched and dusty.

dl

On 4/2/2011 7:16 PM, David Lennick wrote:
> Odd about the Weingartners being on green label, since the ones I've seen have
> all been the regular blue label. Or were they "Columbia Entre" which started
> out as grey label and then were green by the mid 50s? Entre and Bluebird
> coexisted as budget and reissue labels for Columbia and Victor. When RCA
> brought out Camden late in 1953, that may be when Entre's price dropped to $2.
> And both labels were probably in answer to Remington and all the other budget
> labels. By 1953, Remington was recording American orchestras and modern
> American music (under a grant, of course) and had begun to outgrow the shlock
> reputation they'd started out with. Does anyone know why they stopped making
> new recordings after this point and just kept grinding out the same old stuff
> on Remington, Plymouth, Palace, Webster and on and on?
>
> dl
>
> On 4/2/2011 6:10 PM, Robert M. Bratcher Jr. wrote:
>> That green label Columbia LP set of the Beethoven 9 symphonies I have is by
>> Felix Weingartner with whatever orchestra he was conducting at the time. Why 
>it
>> was on green label instead of blue label was always a mystery to me. Oh&  
>David
>> since you know more about Columbia than I do can you tell me more about the
>> Entre label? I have one in my collection (can't tell you offhand what the 
>>actual
>> recording is as I'd have to go dig it up) that seems to sound fairly good
>> similer to what the dark blue classical LP's sounded like. All I know is that 
>>it
>> was a lower priced budget line of classical music. A quick Google search 
tells
>> me that they came out in 1952&  sold for $2.95 each.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: David Lennick<dlennick at sympatico.ca>
>> To: 78-L Mail List<78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>> Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 4:32:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Question 1812 Overture
>>
>> Columbia began recording 16-inch lacquers in late 1939, initially as safeties
>> but before long as source material for 78 issues and later for lps. However,
>> English and European Columbia didn't go near tape or 33rpm for a long time so
>> those early Columbia LPs issued from England were dubbed from 78s, usually 
>very
>> poorly. Columbia eventually relegated these to their Entre label, unless the
>> recordings were of historical importance (Szigeti, Weingartner et al). And 
>yes,
>> I've always felt that the 78 transfers sounded far superior and made a
>> deliberate point of using them when I was doing reissues for Pearl and Dante.
>> There are those who grew up with the early lps and preferred them. Note that
>> echo was often added during the lp transfers. Note also that a lot of
>> Columbia's early lps were dubbed direct from the lacquers, since they were
>> working on the format well before 1948 and tape hadn't been introduced, so 
the
>> engineers had to be pretty quick in accomplishing side joins LIVE. Nothing 
any
>> competent radio operator of the 40s and 50s didn't know how to do in his 
>sleep.
>>
>> dl
>>
>> On 4/2/2011 4:31 PM, Robert M. Bratcher Jr. wrote:
>>> Part of your horrible sound quality experience with LP's made by Varsity,
>>> Royal,
>>> Plymouth&    other budget labels was the cheap low quality vinyl they all 
>used
>>> plus the equilization wasn't RIAA but something else entirely. You have to
>>> remember that prior to 1955 many different recording curves were used such 
as
>>> AES&    others I can't think of at the moment. Most of those early curves 
>>don't
>>> sound great when played on a modern system. Columbia's LP curve for example
>> has
>>> weak bass when played on RIAA.
>>>
>>> The first Columbia classical LP's came out around 1948 or 1949&    were all
>>> dubbed
>>> from the 16 inch masters that the original 78's were made from or they may
>> have
>>> been dubbed from the 78 rpm stampers. I don't have the exact answer on the
>>> dubbing sources for these. Even if you the have a preamp that is able to
>>> reproduce the LP curve I don't think those early Columbia LP's sound as good
>> as
>>> the 78 RPM issues as I've managed to find a few 78 sets for some of my early
>>> dark blue label Columbia LP's&    the 78's sound better to my ears.
>>>
>>> Oh&    I've got a green label Columbia Beethoven set of the 9 symphonies 
that
>>> sounds ok however the dark blue label 78's (of the exact same recordings)
>> sound
>>> much better.