[78-L] fast Beethoven

[Kristjan Saag]

Thanks, Don, for reminding me.
I guess it was Celibidache's version of "Bolero" I heard first - and it 
has always remained my favourite musical piece since.
Celibidache was chief conductor of the Stockholm Philharmonic in the 
1960's - it was probably a radio recording I heard; Celibidache rarely 
recorded for the gramophone.
There's a youtube clip of the last 7 minutes with The Munich Philharmonic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy9QSPmOGVw
...and another one of a 1971 Danish concert:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tOvkU1ewlA&feature=related

The magic is that his interpretation, although it lasts more than 18 
minutes, never feels slow, as Karajan's does, for instance. It just 
captures the essence of the piece: yearning, yet powerful, never 
boisterous. And it's all reflected in Celibidaches appearance on the podium.
Ravel himself, actually, got it over with in 16'10 - and it's still one 
of the longest "Bolero" on record (recorded in 1932).
Never trust the composer.
Kristjan





Don Cox wrote 2011-03-11 19:11:
>
>
> On 10/03/2011, DAVID BURNHAM wrote:
>> Scherchen's Beethoven 4 and 8 are also fast.
>>
>> I think they work well at that speed, but the orchestra gets
>> breathless in places. But slower renditions such as Klemperer's work
>> well too. It isn't just the tempo that matters, but the sharpness of
>> phrasing within that tempo.
>>
>> Beecham's is another fast Eroica, and very successful.
>>
>
> I couldn't agree more, Don.  I love Celibedache's interpretations which are
> almost invariably slower than the norm.  I love Mravinsky's readings which are
> often at breakneck speed.  and Pletnev recently came out with a Beethoven cycle
> which is quite controversial, (the Pastoral is bizarrisimo), and I've played and
> enjoyed them many times.  But it is a complete package, not just the speeds.
>   Playing very fast or very slow is quite taxing for the orchestra.  The last
> movement of Tchaikovsky's 4th by Mravinsky is very fast and very exciting.  The
> same can be said about Toscanini's reading of the orchestration of the Beethoven
> Septet;  the last movement is taken at a pace that I've never heard a chamber
> group manage.  Likewise, Celibedache's recording of "Bolero" is Magnificent, and
> one of the slowest on records;  I never want to hear that piece done fast again,
> (and I know many music lovers don't want to hear that piece again).  Ravel
> himself apparently said that Bolero should always require 4 sides, not 3.  I'm
> in Florida at the moment but when I get home, I want to see if I have the
> Beethoven 4&  8 by Scherchen.
>
> db
>
>
>
> The 1928 recording of Bolero conducted by Ravel himself is on a Pierian CD, or
> some here may have the 78s. He does seem to have preferred it slowish.
>
> But the right tempo depends partly on the acoustic - a dry studio can
> permit a faster tempo than a large concert hall with a long reverb time.
> The presence, and even the mood, of an audience makes a difference. And
> the size of the orchestra.
>
> Regards