[78-L] James Reese Europe "Hellfighters"

[Michael Biel]

Military Band experts could probably answer this.  Fred Williams might
be able to help (via phone -- he doesn't have access to a computer) and
there are a number of band history experts that I have heard give talks
at the annual conference during the Great American Brass Band Festival
in Danville, Kentucky.  Some are experts in obsolete brass instruments,
and could go further in the possible keys than those who are only
knowledgible in currently used instruments.  Tempo is also important,
and in a presentation about the march background of ragtime I think they
indicated that 60 BPM is the acceptable march tempo -- likewise for
ragtime.  You might look thru some of the journals of band history which
are published.  It's not my field so I have no leads, but Fred might.  



Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com  


  -------- Original Message --------
 Subject: Re: [78-L] James Reese Europe "Hellfighters"
 From: David Lennick <dlennick at sympatico.ca>
 Date: Mon, October 12, 2009 7:52 pm
 To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
 
 Your best bet is still to see if the tracks play in keys that are
impossible 
 for brass instruments, like B or D. B Flat, A Flat, F Sharp are among
the good 
 ones.
 
 There's no such thing as a hard and fast rule stating that a given
record 
 company's records play at such and such a speed. Even acoustic
Columbias, which 
 say 80, can play fine at 78 or need to go up 2 or 3 percent. This
problem 
 persisted into the 40s with Decca's New York recordings.
 
 dl
 
 Tim Brooks wrote:
 > Jeff,
 > I know some others have weighed in on this, but the two 1996 Europe
CD reissues are a classic example of the perils of pitching. It's pretty
apparent (IMO) that there was no standard correct speed, and that
individual issues differed.
 > 
 > Brad Kay writes in the liner notes to the Memphis Archives CD that he
used 83.5 rpm (apparently for most or all of the sides) and cites the
reasons why. The IAJRC issue doesn't say, but I compared it with
original issues when it came out (I have a turntable with a digital
speed readout) and seem to recall finding speeds in the 75-80
range--unfortunately I can't find my notes so don't have exact speeds at
hand. You can also compare track timings. "Memphis Blues" runs 2:38 on
the MA but 2:56 on the IAJRC - that's about 10% slower. So if MA was
using 83.5 then IAJRC was at about 75 rpm.
 > 
 > I checked Europe sides reissued on New World and Folkways LPs years
ago and they appear to have been transfered at 80-82 rpm. By way of
comparison, I recently read a detailed essay on the speeds
 > of the Wilbur Sweatman Pathes (1917) which claims their speeds are
 > between 77-79 rpm.
 > 
 > So bottom line you're on your own. Personally I think mid to upper
70s (IAJRC) is more likely in this case - but what do I know?
 > 
 > Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:49:49 -0400
 > From: Jeff Sultanof <jeffsultanof at gmail.com>
 > Subject: [78-L] James Reese Europe "Hellfighters"
 > To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
 > 
 > I am starting a brand new project that will probably take a little
while,
 > and I want to get off on a good start. So I am getting information
from the
 > one group that can really help.
 > 
 > The project involves transcribing, arranging and adapting music for
concert
 > band from the era 1840-1920, much of which has not been available in
many
 > years. Such names as Francis Johnson, Arthur Pryor, Ford Dabney and
James
 > Reese Europe are involved. The sources will be recordings, old sheet
music
 > (usually piano arrangements), and old instrumental arrangements
(which would
 > need to be adapted for modern instrumentation). I will probably
arrange
 > these for concert orchestra as well. I have a publisher for all of
this, the
 > same one publishing my historical big band scores.
 > 
 > The issue involves the Hellfighters recordings. As we all know, they
were
 > recorded by the infamous Pathe label. As we also know, all 24
recordings
 > were reissued in two separate CD editions. The approach to
remastering was
 > totally different for each set, and this raises a particular problem
with
 > regard to two of the sides which were reissued on the Actuelle label
 > (according to Rust): That Moaning Trombone and Memphis Blues. Both of
the
 > sides on the Memphis Archives set sounds rather frantic; the IAJRC
set
 > reissues these sides at a slower speed, changing the key of both
pieces.
 > 
 > This brings up a series of questions, since both sets were remastered
by
 > people whom I consider authorities: Brad Kay and John R.T. Davies. At
what
 > speed were these recorded at? What is the 'normal' playback speed of
Pathe
 > vertical cut discs? Was there a difference in speed for Actuelles?
Assuming
 > the Actuelles were dubbed from a Pathe and not the large master
cylinder,
 > would that account for the difference in speed, or did John R.T.
think as I
 > did that the Pathe's sound frantic and were recorded at a slower
speed?
 > 
 > I realize that many of these questions may have been answered in
different
 > contexts in books and articles, but anything anyone knows or is aware
of
 > would be helpful. It has been suggested that I contact Maurice Peress
about
 > this since he re-created the Europe Carnegie concerts, but Mr. Peress
tends
 > to be territorial and considers Europe his turf, an attitude I've
 > encountered repeatedly with regard to George Gershwin and Gil Evans
(as if
 > people 'own' this music), so I am coming to you first.
 > 
 > Thanks in advance,
 > Jeff Sultanof
 > 
 > 
 _______________________________________________
 78-L mailing list
 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
 http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l