[78-L] Matrix numbers [Victor, anyway]

[Michael Biel]

P G C wrote:
> I have here some pre 1910 red seal discs. they have the catalog number and the matrix? pressed on the shellac.
> But I also can see a samall crown symbol besides the caltalog numbrer, since they are single sided an "angel" like logo graved (trade Mark).
>
> One label (paper) reads "Gramahone Monarch Record" (Milano) "535 1/2 c" with catalog 063068, other has "Victrola" as the brand, (Titta Ruffo, singing) "1329 c" (not hand written) Catalog 92042 crown in the disc or 90024 (s) in the label
>
> Are thise made for/in europe?
>  JorgeF
>
>
>   

The crown and the angel trademark on the reverse of Victors show that 
the master was imported.  The Victor pressings were made for the U.S. 
market from those imported masters.  Over on the popular side, when the 
single-sided records were coupled onto double sided records in the 16000 
series, the other number  you see is the original single-sided catalog 
number.  In the early single sided records the second number you see, 
usually handscribed, is the matrix number.  In acoustical Victors, the 
prefixes on matrix numbers were size indicators.  A=7-inches, B=10, 
C=12, D=8, E=14.  On imported matrix numbers, the suffix is an 
identifier of the recording engineer/producer because each of them kept 
their own serial numbering system which duplicated the numbers used by 
all the others.  So those suffix letterings are vital to identify the 
recording because the numbers are relatively meaningless without the 
suffix. 

Mike Biel   mbiel at mbiel.com 
>
> ________________________________
> From: Chris Zwarg <doctordisc at truesoundtransfers.de>
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 2:42:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Matrix numbers [Victor, anyway]
>
> At 03:40 07.12.2008, you wrote:
>   
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mike Harkin" <harkinmike at yahoo.com>
>>     
>>> Classical Victors from the various branches of HMV do have those mxx on 
>>> the
>>> wax.  Don't remember if they have Victor's mxx also, either in the wax or
>>> printed on the label....
>>> FWIW
>>>
>>>       
>> Sides obtained from the various "overseas" HMV branches DO show their
>> matrix number...which was on the European stampers sent to (RCA) Victor!
>> In the "wax," though...not on the label. And, AFAIK, they were NOT given
>> US matrix numbers as controls!
>>     
>
> After ca. 1928, Victor matrices as control nrs. do appear at least in the ledgers for imported recordings. They rarely bothered to remove the original HMV matrix nr. however, and as the Victor "equivalent" doesn't show in the matrix anyway, no much difference from the customer's/collector's viewpoint. HMV recordings on Victor *without* the HMV mx. showing are usually US-made dubs; if acoustic, they will show the typical S/8 mark denoting a Victor dub.
>
>   
>> However, SOME (not ALL) Red Seals DO show their matrix numbers on the
>> labels...in parentheses under the catalog numbers. I've never figured out 
>> how/
>> why this practice took place...!
>>     
>
> Nothing to do with Red Seal AFAIK, but a short-lived practice for all current series sometime around 1928 (which was of course the time when large parts of RS repertoire were remade electrically, so it might be most commonly seen on this type of record).
>
> Chris Zwarg 
>
>