[78-L] records in films, was: request for a silent 78 side

[buster]

put a transducer (small speaker) into the throat of the tonearm, then  
taped it up for an airtight seal.

On Oct 13, 2008, at 9:54 AM, joe at salerno.com wrote:

> what do you mean " he acoustically coupled a DAT player
> to the tonearm of a victrola " ????
>
> joe salerno
>
>
> buster wrote:
>> years ago a guy was sent to my house by Walter Murch, to record some
>> music for The English Patient.  he acoustically coupled a DAT player
>> to the tonearm of a victrola x, then mic'd the horn and recorded what
>> came out.  the audio was dubbed into a scene in the film, which won
>> the oscar that year for sound, where the characters play a record in
>> the background.
>>
>> On Oct 13, 2008, at 9:06 AM, David Lennick wrote:
>>
>>> They looked correct in "The Harmonists" but sounded awfully scratchy
>>> for what
>>> were supposed to be brand new Electrola pressings.
>>>
>>> I may have been incorrect about the machine in "Out of
>>> Africa" (can't remember
>>> whether it was external or internal) but not about the 70s LP on the
>>> turntable.
>>>
>>> dl
>>>
>>> joe at salerno.com wrote:
>>>> 99.99%? Really?
>>>>
>>>> I think that is optimiistic. (no pun intended, optical having been
>>>> discussed in regards to MOS)
>>>>
>>>> Has there EVER been a scene in a movie, excluding documentaries  
>>>> about
>>>> playing grammo records, that DOES accurately depict a record CU on
>>>> screen being played?
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone name even one?
>>>>
>>>> joe salerno
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David Lennick wrote:
>>>>> If they were doing live television, that would make sense, but
>>>>> films are shot
>>>>> from various angles and takes are intercut, so the source music
>>>>> can't possibly
>>>>> be live from "the source".
>>>>>
>>>>> Even so, it's great (and unheard of) to find someone actually
>>>>> trying to get the
>>>>> right materials for a scene involving phonograph records, which  
>>>>> are
>>>>> misrepresented 99.99 percent of the time. An external horn
>>>>> gramophone was seen
>>>>> in "Out of Africa", with a close-up of a record with an HMV label.
>>>>> A 70s LP.
>>>>>
>>>>> dl
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Zwarg wrote:
>>>>>> At 21:14 12.10.2008, you wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe wrote,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't get it - just use any record
>>>>>>> Hmmm, Joe, nobody, seems to have understood what the film
>>>>>>> producer wants
>>>>>>> to do....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The way I understand it, as she says there's a problem for the
>>>>>>> sound
>>>>>>> dept., she wants to film a needle being placed on a rotating 78,
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> the camera pans back to film the actors/dialogue, all in one  
>>>>>>> take.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, they don't want music bellowing out from the gramophone
>>>>>>> while the
>>>>>>> actors speak (they will dub some quiet music in later).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now do you see why they want a 'silent' 78 ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, can anyone help the producer?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>> IMHO, they should find a "suitably quiet" 78 with music fitting
>>>>>> the mood of the scene, maybe put a "soft" or "pianissimo" needle
>>>>>> on, and record dialogue AND music in the same take. This way, the
>>>>>> music will actually sound like music coming out of a gramophone,
>>>>>> which I presume is what they want to achieve - if that gramophone
>>>>>> is not supposed to play music in the volume and tone quality such
>>>>>> a machine will typically produce, the scene setup is somehow
>>>>>> silly, isn't it? The "natural" volume of the gramophone music
>>>>>> should be low enough that the actors can easily hear each other,
>>>>>> so the sound recordist should have no problem to pick the
>>>>>> dialogue up clearly; if OTOH the music is so loud as to mask the
>>>>>> dialogue, that merely shows that the characters *could just not
>>>>>> have been talking the way they do standing next to the machine,
>>>>>> as they wouldn't have understood each other*, and they shouldn't
>>>>>> try and film it that way, pretending the gramophone sounds more
>>>>>> softly than it does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Zwarg
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