[78-L] records in films, was: request for a silent 78 side

[joe@salerno.com]

Ah, now I perceive, he was recording the SOUND of the machine without 
actually playing a record on it

joe salerno


buster wrote:
> put a transducer (small speaker) into the throat of the tonearm, then  
> taped it up for an airtight seal.
> 
> On Oct 13, 2008, at 9:54 AM, joe at salerno.com wrote:
> 
>> what do you mean " he acoustically coupled a DAT player
>> to the tonearm of a victrola " ????
>>
>> joe salerno
>>
>>
>> buster wrote:
>>> years ago a guy was sent to my house by Walter Murch, to record some
>>> music for The English Patient.  he acoustically coupled a DAT player
>>> to the tonearm of a victrola x, then mic'd the horn and recorded what
>>> came out.  the audio was dubbed into a scene in the film, which won
>>> the oscar that year for sound, where the characters play a record in
>>> the background.
>>>
>>> On Oct 13, 2008, at 9:06 AM, David Lennick wrote:
>>>
>>>> They looked correct in "The Harmonists" but sounded awfully scratchy
>>>> for what
>>>> were supposed to be brand new Electrola pressings.
>>>>
>>>> I may have been incorrect about the machine in "Out of
>>>> Africa" (can't remember
>>>> whether it was external or internal) but not about the 70s LP on the
>>>> turntable.
>>>>
>>>> dl
>>>>
>>>> joe at salerno.com wrote:
>>>>> 99.99%? Really?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that is optimiistic. (no pun intended, optical having been
>>>>> discussed in regards to MOS)
>>>>>
>>>>> Has there EVER been a scene in a movie, excluding documentaries  
>>>>> about
>>>>> playing grammo records, that DOES accurately depict a record CU on
>>>>> screen being played?
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone name even one?
>>>>>
>>>>> joe salerno
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David Lennick wrote:
>>>>>> If they were doing live television, that would make sense, but
>>>>>> films are shot
>>>>>> from various angles and takes are intercut, so the source music
>>>>>> can't possibly
>>>>>> be live from "the source".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even so, it's great (and unheard of) to find someone actually
>>>>>> trying to get the
>>>>>> right materials for a scene involving phonograph records, which  
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> misrepresented 99.99 percent of the time. An external horn
>>>>>> gramophone was seen
>>>>>> in "Out of Africa", with a close-up of a record with an HMV label.
>>>>>> A 70s LP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> dl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Zwarg wrote:
>>>>>>> At 21:14 12.10.2008, you wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joe wrote,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't get it - just use any record
>>>>>>>> Hmmm, Joe, nobody, seems to have understood what the film
>>>>>>>> producer wants
>>>>>>>> to do....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The way I understand it, as she says there's a problem for the
>>>>>>>> sound
>>>>>>>> dept., she wants to film a needle being placed on a rotating 78,
>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>> the camera pans back to film the actors/dialogue, all in one  
>>>>>>>> take.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, they don't want music bellowing out from the gramophone
>>>>>>>> while the
>>>>>>>> actors speak (they will dub some quiet music in later).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now do you see why they want a 'silent' 78 ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, can anyone help the producer?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>> IMHO, they should find a "suitably quiet" 78 with music fitting
>>>>>>> the mood of the scene, maybe put a "soft" or "pianissimo" needle
>>>>>>> on, and record dialogue AND music in the same take. This way, the
>>>>>>> music will actually sound like music coming out of a gramophone,
>>>>>>> which I presume is what they want to achieve - if that gramophone
>>>>>>> is not supposed to play music in the volume and tone quality such
>>>>>>> a machine will typically produce, the scene setup is somehow
>>>>>>> silly, isn't it? The "natural" volume of the gramophone music
>>>>>>> should be low enough that the actors can easily hear each other,
>>>>>>> so the sound recordist should have no problem to pick the
>>>>>>> dialogue up clearly; if OTOH the music is so loud as to mask the
>>>>>>> dialogue, that merely shows that the characters *could just not
>>>>>>> have been talking the way they do standing next to the machine,
>>>>>>> as they wouldn't have understood each other*, and they shouldn't
>>>>>>> try and film it that way, pretending the gramophone sounds more
>>>>>>> softly than it does.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris Zwarg
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