[78-L] records in films, was: request for a silent 78 side

[joe@salerno.com]

what do you mean " he acoustically coupled a DAT player
to the tonearm of a victrola " ????

joe salerno


buster wrote:
> years ago a guy was sent to my house by Walter Murch, to record some  
> music for The English Patient.  he acoustically coupled a DAT player  
> to the tonearm of a victrola x, then mic'd the horn and recorded what  
> came out.  the audio was dubbed into a scene in the film, which won  
> the oscar that year for sound, where the characters play a record in  
> the background.
> 
> On Oct 13, 2008, at 9:06 AM, David Lennick wrote:
> 
>> They looked correct in "The Harmonists" but sounded awfully scratchy  
>> for what
>> were supposed to be brand new Electrola pressings.
>>
>> I may have been incorrect about the machine in "Out of  
>> Africa" (can't remember
>> whether it was external or internal) but not about the 70s LP on the  
>> turntable.
>>
>> dl
>>
>> joe at salerno.com wrote:
>>> 99.99%? Really?
>>>
>>> I think that is optimiistic. (no pun intended, optical having been
>>> discussed in regards to MOS)
>>>
>>> Has there EVER been a scene in a movie, excluding documentaries about
>>> playing grammo records, that DOES accurately depict a record CU on
>>> screen being played?
>>>
>>> Can anyone name even one?
>>>
>>> joe salerno
>>>
>>>
>>> David Lennick wrote:
>>>> If they were doing live television, that would make sense, but  
>>>> films are shot
>>>> from various angles and takes are intercut, so the source music  
>>>> can't possibly
>>>> be live from "the source".
>>>>
>>>> Even so, it's great (and unheard of) to find someone actually  
>>>> trying to get the
>>>> right materials for a scene involving phonograph records, which are
>>>> misrepresented 99.99 percent of the time. An external horn  
>>>> gramophone was seen
>>>> in "Out of Africa", with a close-up of a record with an HMV label.  
>>>> A 70s LP.
>>>>
>>>> dl
>>>>
>>>> Chris Zwarg wrote:
>>>>> At 21:14 12.10.2008, you wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe wrote,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't get it - just use any record
>>>>>> Hmmm, Joe, nobody, seems to have understood what the film  
>>>>>> producer wants
>>>>>> to do....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The way I understand it, as she says there's a problem for the  
>>>>>> sound
>>>>>> dept., she wants to film a needle being placed on a rotating 78,  
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> the camera pans back to film the actors/dialogue, all in one take.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, they don't want music bellowing out from the gramophone  
>>>>>> while the
>>>>>> actors speak (they will dub some quiet music in later).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now do you see why they want a 'silent' 78 ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, can anyone help the producer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>> IMHO, they should find a "suitably quiet" 78 with music fitting  
>>>>> the mood of the scene, maybe put a "soft" or "pianissimo" needle  
>>>>> on, and record dialogue AND music in the same take. This way, the  
>>>>> music will actually sound like music coming out of a gramophone,  
>>>>> which I presume is what they want to achieve - if that gramophone  
>>>>> is not supposed to play music in the volume and tone quality such  
>>>>> a machine will typically produce, the scene setup is somehow  
>>>>> silly, isn't it? The "natural" volume of the gramophone music  
>>>>> should be low enough that the actors can easily hear each other,  
>>>>> so the sound recordist should have no problem to pick the  
>>>>> dialogue up clearly; if OTOH the music is so loud as to mask the  
>>>>> dialogue, that merely shows that the characters *could just not  
>>>>> have been talking the way they do standing next to the machine,  
>>>>> as they wouldn't have understood each other*, and they shouldn't  
>>>>> try and film it that way, pretending the gramophone sounds more  
>>>>> softly than it does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Zwarg
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