[78-L] For 78's, What Does Transcription Mean?

Thu Apr 2 12:08:47 PDT 2020

Hi Michael;

I've taken some pics of the three discs.  Do you want me to send them to you
directly or post them here?  I'll need an email address.
Mine is ron at roscotron.com

Not much to see.  Perhaps you can see the fine grooves.  3 AudioDisc lacquers,
each recorded only on one side, only one has some hen scratching in the label
area. I think they must be later dubs??
The discs are pristine.  I copied them to a large .wav file some years ago, I
could make a CD for you if you want.

Ron 

-----Original Message-----
From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
[mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] On Behalf Of Michael Biel
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2020 5:29 AM
To: 78-L Mail List
Subject: Re: [78-L] For 78's, What Does Transcription Mean?

By the way Ron, if you have lacquers of a 1946 Philco show with 1 mil groove,
they are probably later dubs.  1 mil was definitely not used publicly until
after Columbia introduced the LP in June 1948. They were hoping to patent
Microgroove and were keeping it secret, but there had been Western Electric
tests of groove size in the 1920s, and RCA was using it on their secret Madame X
45 experiments in the early 40s, calling it Victor Gruv on the recording
ledgers, so a patent was impossible.  The only possible answer is if it was
leaked to Philco in development of the Lp players Columbia commissioned for
1948. Columbia itself was not using 1 mil for its 16-inch masters for the record
company.

I'd love to see the labels and examine the discs.

Michael Biel.

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com <78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com>
on behalf of Michael Biel <mbiel at mbiel.com.invalid>
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 5:10:58 AM
To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Subject: Re: [78-L] For 78's, What Does Transcription Mean?

Bing's desire to pre-record his program was ONLY to be able to edit. It had
NOTHING to do with his golf schedule or any other leisure activity. If you
consult the book of Bing's chronology you will see that the Philco recording
schedule followed a strict week after week after week after week recording
schedule at the same day and time each week. No doubling up of programs so he
could get out of town. I don't know if he or the network chose the day and time,
but it was rigidly consistent for all the seasons of the series.

Michael Biel.

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com <78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com>
on behalf of Rodger J. Holtin <rjh334578 at gmail.com.invalid>
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 3:45:39 AM
To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Subject: Re: [78-L] For 78's, What Does Transcription Mean?

I wasn't going to argue with Doc Biel, but Bing wanted to record the programs on
HIS schedule, not the network's. The regular weekly thing was interrupting his
golf and horse racing life. I'd say you're right about recording saving the
network a bundle of cash. Not to mention the ability to shift time.

Bing's guys invented the laugh track, too. (I hated the laughter dubbed into
MASH but I suppose it was the only way to make sure people thought it was
funny.)

The Ampex story has been badly bent out of shape, too, but we got it straight
for you. Bing recorded it in pieces on disc for the first year of the Philco
program and switched to tape the second year. It's often told that the invention
of Ampex afforded him the ability to pre-record. Wrong.

I think in your query about what we liked about 78s etc that I mentioned Bing as
a special figure and it's true. I own most of his 78s and about half of his LPs
and I've read everything I could find about him. Sent him a fan letter that was
probably on his desk in Holmby Hills when he died in Spain.

Glad one of the guys sent you Biel's doctoral dissertation. I wasn't home or I'd
have done it. I keep it on my desktop.

Rodger Holtin
78-L Member Since MCMXCVIII

For Best Results Use Victor Needles

Sent from my sluggish old iPhone, which explainz any bad typjng, bad spellimg,
nonsensical word choices, delays and all other lapses.

> On Apr 2, 2020, at 2:00 AM, DKing <ginku_ledovec at att.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks, Rodger.  I guess I never really understood the influence that Bing
Crosby had.  Not only that, it probably saved the network some money too - as "a
show" could be put together anytime, and they wouldn't have to tie up radio
network time to reserve it for a live show.
>
> - Dave King
>
>
>> On Apr 1, 2020, at 8:33 AM, Rodger J. Holtin <rjh334578 at gmail.com.invalid>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> "War of the Worlds" had no effect on it. Bing Crosby was the major force.
>>
>> During the war Bing made a considerable number of transcriptions for AFRS,
especially Command Performance programs. He saw how deftly the engineers could
assemble a great sounding program using multiple discs and disc jockeying their
way through what sounded like a live performance of a variety show.
>>
>> Bing saw the potential for that because he wanted more control of his own
time instead of being locked into showing up at the studio every week at the
same time. His network at the time balked at the idea, but the good folks over
at the fairly new ABC radio network were willing to play ball with Bing. The
Ampex tape recorder came in to play at about that same time thus making the disc
transcriptions obsolete, And moving everything to tape.
>>
>> Rodger Holtin
>> 78-L Member Since MCMXCVIII
>>
>> For Best Results Use Victor Needles
>>
>> Sent from my sluggish old iPhone, which explainz any bad typjng, bad
spellimg, nonsensical word choices, delays and all other lapses.
>>
>
>>> On Apr 1, 2020, at 8:41 AM, DKing <ginku_ledovec at att.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Rodger, that's interesting that networks required "live" performances,
when a good recording could have save them money.
>>>
>>> When it comes to recorded vs. "live" - what changes (if any) were made at
the networks after the live broadcast of "War of The World", which caused so
much panic amongst the public?
>>>
>>> - Dave King
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Apr 1, 2020, at 6:14 AM, Rodger J. Holtin <rjh334578 at gmail.com.invalid>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Transcription" was used rather euphemistically by the broadcasters for
years. The networks viewed anything that was recorded as second-class sound,
especially early on. The Hindenburg disaster helped to crack their general
outright ban of recordings.
>>>>
>>>> Small stations, of course, relied heavily on them and on commercial
phonograph records. Some artists attempted to thwart that and some labels of the
78 days even said "broadcast prohibited," to little or no avail. "Electrical
Transcriptions" were made just for that purpose and they generally sounded much
better than commercial 78s - then and now.
>>>>
>>>> Somebody else can probably fill in more details here. There was also a time
when anything recorded that was played over the air had to be identified as such
so listeners would know that it was not live. I have heard taped programs that
were identified as "Transcribed in Chicago.." into the 1960s.
>>>>
>>>> Rodger Holtin
>>>> 78-L Member Since MCMXCVIII
>>>>
>>>> For Best Results Use Victor Needles
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my sluggish old iPhone, which explainz any bad typjng, bad
spellimg, nonsensical word choices, delays and all other lapses.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 1, 2020, at 7:28 AM, DKing <ginku_ledovec at att.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Kristjan.  You're right.
>>>>>
>>>>> Transformation or remake is a more appropriate term
>>>>> for what Scott Bradlee does with Postmodern Jukebox.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm always amazed by how many great singers and musicians
>>>>> are out there, whether on LP's or 78's, and keeping live music
>>>>> in mind too.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Dave King
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 1, 2020, at 2:40 AM, Kristjan Saag <saag at telia.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Transcription, etymologically, means to write across, over or beyond.
>>>>>> And, in music, is originally used when scores are involved. Either
>>>>>> making a score from previously unannotated music or creating a new score
>>>>>> for a different instrumental setting. Annotated arrangements may be
>>>>>> labelled as transcriptions as well, but usually take more liberties and,
>>>>>> if sufficiently different, can be copyrighted.
>>>>>> I wouldn't use the word transcription for "remakes" in popular music,
>>>>>> not even for arrangements in jazz music, which usually also give room
>>>>>> for large proportions of improvisation.
>>>>>> Scott Bradlee's "transformations" are delicate, especially when Robyn
>>>>>> Adele Anderson is involved in performing, but let's call them
>>>>>> "transformations" or "remakes" instead.
>>>>>> As for the other meaning of the word, when making a recording of a
>>>>>> broadcast, the type of music, of course, is irrelevant.
>>>>>> Kristjan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2020-04-01 06:57, DKing wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks David, that makes sense. And it helped seeing your example of
>>>>>>> musical transcription too. If you approve of the idea of taking one
>>>>>>> type of music and putting it into a new arrangement for a different
>>>>>>> style of music, you might like the work of Scott Bradlee's "Postmodern
>>>>>>> Jukebox". For example, take "Boulevard of Broken Dreams", where Green
>>>>>>> Day's rock & roll is transformed by Bradlee. Note by Scott Bradlee,
>>>>>>> who is on the piano: "On our day off on tour we brought Maiya Sykes
>>>>>>> into the studio, where she delivered this powerful, emotionally raw
>>>>>>> performance of Green Day's "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" on the very
>>>>>>> first take. Folks, Maiya Sykes is the real deal, and everyone should
>>>>>>> know about this incredible vocalist."
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riZck9O-kBU
>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riZck9O-kBU> The comparison is a long
>>>>>>> way from classical music, so I hope I'm forgiven by Stokowski. - Dave
>>>>>>> King
>>>>>>>> On Mar 31, 2020, at 7:05 PM, David Lennick
>>>>>>>> <dplennick at yahoo.com.invalid> wrote: Musically, transcription can
>>>>>>>> refer to an arrangement such as Bach 'transcribed for orchestra' by
>>>>>>>> someone like Stokowski. In 78 context it's from the same era of
>>>>>>>> recorded sound (pre-LP) and is short for 'electrical transcription'
>>>>>>>> or 'radio transcription', a disc recorded off air or intended for
>>>>>>>> broadcast in the days before tape. dl ---------- Original Message
>>>>>>>> ---------- From: DKing <ginku_ledovec at att.net.invalid> Date: March
>>>>>>>> 31, 2020 at 7:55 PM Many of you recently referred to "transcription".
>>>>>>>> What does transcription mean in the context of 78's, and can it have
>>>>>>>> more than one meaning? - Dave King
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>>>>>>
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