[78-L] California Ramblers Edison mystery

Wed Feb 17 21:17:35 PST 2016

Two takes? Edison commonly recorded 3 takes (-A, -B, -C) of each title, 
and uncommonly 6 takes (-D, -E, -F). Test pressings must have existed 
and, possibly, still exist. Unfortunately none of my resources give even 
the issued take(s), just the matrix number.
I wonder...
Malcolm

*******

On 2/16/2016 7:47 PM, Rodger Holtin wrote:
> And yet there are significant problems to every possible explanation we've
> come up with.  Had Biograph had two takes available when they created that
> LP the chances of the bad spots / good spots lining up just around the
> clarinet seem kinda unlikely and we've acknowledged the records themselves
> are pretty scarce so the chance of even having two takes available seems
> slim, too - but possible.
>
> Didn't Edison keep track of which takes were issued?  Does any 78-L member
> own another take of this thing?
>
> Gotta wonder if this was even a written arrangement or a head job.  Even
> solos they read might have some minor variations, even spots in the ensemble
> will sometimes carry small differences.  Hard to find 'em here.  And to
> suggest that Rollini reused the same solo on different takes just doesn't
> quite ring true with what we otherwise think we know about him.  But it sure
> seems as though he may have this time, anyway.
>
> I have two theories and they have their problems as well.
> My pet theory runs something like this:  Sweet Man was such a popular tune
> with their audiences that they had played it every night and got into a
> groove with it to the point that they had worked out their solos to the best
> possible format and just didn't bother to change them anymore.  Even the two
> clarinet solos are rhythmically similar.  Not sure even I would buy that
> theory 100%, but we do know that sometimes a solo gets a life of its own
> [Singin' the Blues, Dippermouth...], so it is possible.  To extend that to
> include all the soloists on this record may be a stretch, admittedly.  And,
> of course, if this was such a popular tune as that theory is dependent upon,
> why is this their only recording of it?  Incidentally, Michael Brooks' liner
> notes says it "drags a bit until Rollini comes roaring in."  I don't quite
> buy that, either.  Rollini is often the star on any record he's on, but he's
> in really good company here.  He's still the star, but these guys are
> holding their own quite respectably, again making it even difficult to
> comprehend their carbon copy solos across multiple takes.
>
> So, we're left with a lot of questions involving things we thought we knew
> about improvisational jazz and musicians of the Twenties, arranging for
> dance bands, and yes, maybe even the technology of Edison recording - and
> not much in the way of good answers, so here's my last theory:  Edison was
> secretly recording in stereo and we have only heard the right channel until
> this copy turned up with the left channel horn closer to the second
> clarinetist.  PPPfffft.
>
> If somebody has time and wants to pitch this to one of the facebook groups,
> have at it; somebody there may have just as good a theory as anything we
> have come up with. Maybe others will find it as intriguing as we have.
>
>
> Rodger
>
> For best results use Victor Needles
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
> [mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] On Behalf Of Tim Huskisson
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 6:13 AM
> To: '78-L Mail List'
> Subject: Re: [78-L] California Ramblers Edison mystery
>
>
> Only the improvised solos will be different. For the most part, Rollini and
> the other musicians are just reading their part. Those that could improvise
> well (eg. Rollini) are more likely to play a completely different solo on a
> different take. Other soloists may be playing a written solo.
> Regards,
> Tim Huskisson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
> [mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] On Behalf Of Rodger Holtin
> Sent: 17 February 2016 05:09
> To: '78-L Mail List'
> Subject: [78-L] California Ramblers Edison mystery
>
>
> All that chat about flanging a couple days ago reminded me of a story I've
> been intending to share with the Board of Experts for a while.
>
>   
>
> I guess it was last spring when 78-Listmember Dave Blue Pages Diehl paid me
> a visit here in West TN on his way to ARSC.  He pulled a box from the trunk
> and said they were just some souvenirs of Arkansas.  Indeed.  One was a
> Diamond Disc of Sweet Man by the Golden Gate Orchestra.  This has been a
> favorite of ours since we heard Bill Givens play it on WHAM in Rochester, NY
> on April 4, 1965.  We taped that and wore the tape out.  Fast forward to
> 1970 and it showed up on Biograph BLP-12020 as Miss Annabelle Lee - The
> California Ramblers on Edison, Vol 1.  We put that on cassette and enjoyed
> it in the walkman or the Buick until the cassettes croaked.  Fast forward to
> 2007 when I got my first computer that allowed me to burn my own CDs and
> that track was among the first 100 CDs I burned.
>
>   
>
> We knew this record well - very well, and count it among the best of its age
> by any band.  But when confronted with an original Edison, we did what we
> would have done as teenagers - washed it and played it, regardless of the
> fact we had it on CD.
>
>   
>
> Well..as it played, we noticed minor differences and chalked it up to EQ
> settings, for it all sounded so "right" - the solos were all familiar, note
> for note, lick for lick, the attacks the same - until we got to the clarinet
> passage at the 2:30 mark and that sent us looking for the CD.  Marked
> differences.  The old DD says it is take C, and the liner notes to Biograph
> BLP-12020 says it, too is take C.  So we slapped 'em both into a digital
> file to get a "stereo" version, the LP transfer in one channel and the old
> DD in the other.  (It sounds a bit "flanged" and that's what prompted my
> memory of this to pass on.)
>
>   
>
> Easier said than done.  The LP version was brighter, played faster, and
> consequently, shorter.  The assumption here is the LP transfer may have been
> a tad fast, my original dub of the Lp to digital may have been too fast,
> etc., before I got the nice turntable I have now.  So, anything's possible.
> The DD transferred at a flat 78.26 and we used the software to perk it up
> appropriately and that helped to even the score, but not completely.  Not
> wishing to waste all night on this project, we got it pretty close by
> dumping the first two minutes or so and centering it around the middle of
> the clarinet passage, and there you can really hear the difference.  One
> break is ascending notes, the other is descending.  No amount of EQ
> difference is going to produce that.
>
>   
>
> Take a listen.  I've put the LP and DD files in Dropbox as mp3 files and our
> crude composite of the final 1:20 or so is also there, marked "sample
> 2-edit."   Every other solo is exactly the same.
>
>   
>
> It amazed us that such a group as this would ever be able to play the same
> arrangement note for note twice and make a near carbon-copy performance -
> especially Adrian Rollini on bass sax.  He could be counted on for fresh
> stuff on every take.  The DD has the complete title, the Lp is obviously a
> rip from the CD and marked with "LP" as part of the file name.
>
>   
>
> Could the LP be mismarked as -C?  Could there be more than one -C?  The DD
> wax is pretty clear.
>
>   
>
> Here's the link:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/btnr2p84qpwg6z5/AABSUvIRSflT2GLXtJiMrmBya?dl=0
>
>   
>
>   
>
> Footnotes:
>
> 1-At first I thought the clarinet passage was a solo, but now I believe it's
> two guys trading off, one takes 16 bars of the refrain as a subtone and then
> trades 8s for the last half with a guy playing alto in a higher register.
> My son the band director thinks they trade positions for the two takes!
>
> 2-Also noted that the LP liner notes said "Original sound qualities have
> been retained and no artificial echoing or rechanneling has been
> introduced."  But I think I hear a little echo here on the LP transfer, and
> I had no way to add any.
>
>   
>
> Rodger
>
>   
>
> For best results use Victor Needles
>
>   
>
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