[78-L] Rock & Roll rising (was: Escott, was Arnold Covey)

[Joe Scott]

Yeah, that was a big hit for Wynonie and presumably had any influence on his approach to "Good Rockin' Tonight." "...Whiskey..." (not a blues, which rock and roll usually was) was itself in a non-blues (almost always, as gospel itself vritually always wasn't in 12-bar form) tradition of mock-camp-meeting-shout-influenced-pop that included Sy Oliver singing "Yes Indeed" with Tommy Dorsey and Woody Herman singing "Amen" and I forget which one it was by Louis Armstrong. Rock and roll was far from the first time black gospel got mocked (or whatever) in secular music but the first time certain details were included in that.

Joseph Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: eugene hayhoe
Sent: 03/07/14 03:24 PM
To: 78-L Mail List
Subject: Re: [78-L] Rock & Roll rising (was: Escott, was Arnold Covey)

"Who Threw the Whiskey in the Well, that's what I'd like to know?!'' -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 3/7/14, Joe Scott <joenscott at mail.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [78-L] Rock & Roll rising (was: Escott, was Arnold Covey) To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com> Date: Friday, March 7, 2014, 1:13 PM Jordan said in a '70s interview that Decca asked him to make rock and roll for them and he refused because he didn't like it. (After Decca dropped him he did end up recording very good rock and roll.) As of 1949 there was a fad in secular music for singing about rocking over a backbeat ("Rock That Boogie" by Jimmy Smith, "Boogie At Midnight" by Roy Brown, "Hole In The Wall" by Albennie Jones, "Rockin' All Day" by Jimmy McCracklin, etc.). The fad was influenced by the fact that Wynonie Harris's "Good Rockin' Tonight" and Bill Moore's "We're Gonna Rock" had both been top 3 on the black charts in 1948. There was no such fad as of 1946 or any time earlier. There was still that fad in 1956. Nothing Little Richard did in the late '50s hadn't been done before Sun Records existed (check out "Rock H-Bomb Rock" by H-Bomb Ferguson, for instance). Other than the combination of lyrics about rocking with backbeat through most of a tune, there was nothing in 1949-1950 rock and roll that hadn't been around somewere in black music since about 1943, and rock and roll, a new kind of jump blues, often sounded largely like Louis Jordan in most respects because he was by far the most successful and imitated jump blues artist in general. (I agree with Malcolm's point that overall there was a lot more to Louis Jordan than jump _blues_, but he was so massively popular that he was the most popular jump blues artist.) The people who made the earliest rock and roll recordings tended to be working within the urban black entertainment business: at the time they were drawing on the likes of Roy Milton far more than the likes of Arthur Crudup. Bill Haley became interested in the rock and roll sound in 1950 and he got the great idea to combine it with "hillbilly" music to make rockabilly. Little Richard wasn't rockabilly but was rock and roll. Similarly, none of the earliest known rock and roll was rockabilly. Regarding whether the shaping was purposeful, I'd say it was: artists such as Wynonie Harris knew that black people mostly associated backbeat with religious music, associated the verb "rock" with both religious music ("rock my soul" etc.) and with partying, and they created a new secular genre based on being playfully sacriligious in a way their listeners could understand while they were partying. Joseph Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Malcolm Rockwell Sent: 03/07/14 10:12 AM To: 78-L Mail List Subject: [78-L] Rock & Roll rising (was: Escott, was Arnold Covey) I've always found Louis Jordan interesting. I consider him more a crossover novelty act, judging by his choice and execution of material, than the more specific R&B, bop, big band, combo, etc. descriptions. But it's true that R&R drew from all those influences and more while being shaped. However I do not think that shaping was purposeful, more accidental and/or evolutionary. Could it be possible that the dynamism between city and country, black and white, standard and non-standard, etc., musical forms is why Rock & Roll developed? That's far more likely, in my estimation. Malcolm ******* On 3/7/2014 2:30 AM, Mark Bardenwerper wrote: > On 3/7/2014 5:08 AM, eugene hayhoe wrote: >> Electric guitarist Jimmy Lewis has something to say on the topic: >> >> >> http://www.freshsoundrecords.com/the_complete_recordings_1947-1955-cd-2063.html >> >> >> I've always found the 'it can't be rock and roll yet if they're not white' 'argument' bleakly amusing. As Johnny Otis said 'can't they gi ve black people credit for anything?' >> >> > Point well taken. High on my list would be Louis Jordan. > _______________________________________________ 78-L mailing list 78-L at klickitat.78online.com http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l _______________________________________________ 78-L mailing list 78-L at klickitat.78online.com http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l _______________________________________________ 78-L mailing list 78-L at klickitat.78online.com http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l