[78-L] Green Grow the Lilacs
Guyotsmith at aol.com
Guyotsmith at aol.com
Sun Jan 12 12:39:24 PST 2014
John Harrington Cox's Folk-Songs of the South includes "The Green Laurels,"
collected in 1917 in Monongalia County, West Virginia. Cox refers to the
song as being also found as "The Orange and Blue," and states that "origin
blue" is a corruption of the intended lyric. Cox's Version A of "The Green
Laurels" closely parallels the Frank Luther rendition. His Version B, under
the title "Green Grows the Wild Isle," collected in Charleston in 1916,
differs in several respects, and includes the "red, white, and blue" which Tex
Ritter famously sang. Cox comments on the reappearance of several stanzas
in other lyrical pieces.
It is interesting that this song appears not to have been recorded early,
at least under the titles one would immediately seek. It may be that the
Lynn Riggs play brought the song back from obscurity. Tex Ritter appeared to
suggest, in some interviews, that Riggs had reworked or revised the piece.
I would be interested to know whether "Green Grow the Lilacs" appeared in
any 19th century American songbooks. I vividly remember a crumbling songbook
which my grandmother kept in a cardboard box, lined with tissue paper,
which contained a great many obscure pieces not often printed elsewhere. The
paper was disintegrating, but she would turn the pages with great care and
sing the songs to me. I can't recall whether "Green Grow the Lilacs" was in
that old songster, but she did sing it to me - accompanied by remarks about
the 1847 war with Mexico.
If one had the time and energy, it would be fun to delve into the subject
of old songs which were evidently never recorded, even during the early
days, when old standards were so often marketed. The topic interests me very
much.
Jonathan
In a message dated 1/12/2014 1:40:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
soundthink at live.com writes:
Here's a version of "Green Grow the Laurels" by Sandy Denny that probably
is close to what the original Scottish/Irish song sounded like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3OWOCwvjHU
Cary Ginell
On Jan 12, 2014, at 9:54 AM, Guyotsmith at aol.com wrote:
> I have a World transcription by Frank Luther which contains the song.
I've
> never had the recording dates for those World transcriptions, but I'll
bet
> you could date them. Some of Frank's verses are found in the Scottish
> "Green Grow the Laurel" and not in the version Tex sang throughout his
career,
> certainly inspired by the Lynn Riggs play and his involvement in same.
As
> the piece entered tradition, there were many alterations of both melody
and
> lyrics, of course. My grandmother, born in 1883, told me a great deal
about
> the song, and I wish I could recall all the details. I do know that
she,
> like our friend Frank Luther, sang it as "change the green lilac to the
> Oregon blue" or "to the origin blue," or "to the orange and the blue,"
and not
> "to the red, white, and blue." As to the actual recording of the song,
I
> would assume Frank Luther's World transcription would be the earliest
that we
> presently know of. Interesting topic.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> In a message dated 1/12/2014 12:43:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> soundthink at live.com writes:
>
> Here are the other 78 rpm versions I have of "Green Grown the Lilacs."
All
> are post-war.
>
> Maddox Bros. & Rose (Columbia 21099)
> Tex Ritter & his Texans (Capitol 206)
> Johnnie Lee Wills & his Boys (Decca 46064)
>
> Other versions in my library on LP or 45 include Harry Belafonte, Ed
> McCurdy, The Chad Mitchell Trio, Frank Luther, The Blue Sky Boys (their
reunion
> for Rounder in the 1970s), The Jones Brothers, The Easy Riders, Johnny
> Cash, and Robin & the Folkstringers (a SESAC 45)
>
> Cary
>
> On Jan 12, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Cary Ginell <soundthink at live.com> wrote:
>
>> I found another version of it by Tony Kraber on his Keynote 78 rpm
album
> "The Old Chisholm Trail" (Keynote 104), but that is the one record out
of
> three in the album that I am missing. The liner notes give the same
> derivation of "gringo," which may or may not be true, but it's
certainly an
> interesting story.
>>
>> I find it interesting that there are no pre-WWII recordings of this
> song, in light of the fact that its life goes back a century before
Ritter's
> version.
>>
>> Incidentally, Ritter didn't sing the song in "Green Grow the Lilacs."
He
> did sing four numbers, but not this one.
>>
>> Cary
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2014, at 9:30 AM, Guyotsmith at aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> Cary, that's an interesting question. Frank Luther sang it on a
World
>>> transcription which would pre-date Tex's Capitol recording - and
Frank
> much
>>> later included the song on his final Lp, in stereo, for Pickwick.
Frank
> also
>>> sang the song on my grandmother's NBC radio series. My grandmother
and
> Tex
>>> Ritter, who also worked together in New York, liked to tell the story
> of that
>>> song's popularity during the 1847 war with Mexico, and how the
> soldiers'
>>> singing "Green Grow the Lilacs" was supposedly misinterpreted by the
> Mexican
>>> troops, resulting in their calling the Americans "gringo"
(corrupted
> from
>>> "green grow"). In reality, the term "gringo" is probably a
corruption
> of
>>> "griego," as you know - but both my grandmother and Tex spent
decades
> telling
>>> the "Green Grow the Lilacs" story, and I shared it with my own
> students
>>> this past week.
>>>
>>> Whereas Tex sings "....and change the green lilacs for the red,
white,
> and
>>> blue," Frank Luther has it "...and change the green lilacs to the
> Oregon
>>> blue." Others sing it as "the orange and the blue." Had I been
> possessed
>>> of sufficient intelligence in my younger days, I would have recorded
> my
>>> grandmother singing that song - but I didn't. Her melody - and Frank
> Luther's
>>> - differed from Tex's. Whether Tex sang it as Lynn Riggs wanted it
> sung, or
>>> whether he had known the song as a youth in Texas, I don't know. He
>>> sometimes called it his favorite song. How many questions would we
ask
> if we
>>> could go back in time!
>>>
>>> Have a wonderful week ahead.
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 1/12/2014 11:51:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>> soundthink at live.com writes:
>>>
>>> Does anyone know of recordings of the song "Green Grow the Lilacs"
> that
>>> predates Tex Ritter's 1945 Capitol version? The song was the basis
for
> Lynn
>>> Riggs' 1931 play, which consisted entirely of traditional folk
songs.
>>> Rodgers & Hammerstein later revamped the story, replaced the folk
> songs with
>>> their own compositions, and transformed Broadway with the resulting
> show,
>>> "Oklahoma!" but I find the orignal show intriguing. I find no
> recordings of
>>> "Green Grow the Lilacs" in Russell so wonder if any others were
> recorded.
>>>
>>> Cary Ginell
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>>
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