[78-L] Green Grow the Lilacs

[gdkimball at cox.net]

There is a long thread on the Mudcat folksong site that discusses "Green Grows the Laurel" and links this Old World song with "Green Grows the Lilac."

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=11139

It's difficult to tell from this thread how the two are connected, but Irish and Scottish versions might explain the lines about color:  "Orange and Blue" perhaps corrupted to "Oregon Blue"?  There is a citation to a 1917 version of "The Green Laurels" from a folk song compilation but seemingly little else from the American side that is early.

Gregg

---- Guyotsmith at aol.com wrote: 
> I have a World transcription by Frank Luther which contains  the song. I've 
> never had the recording dates for those World transcriptions, but  I'll bet 
> you could date them. Some of Frank's verses are found in the Scottish  
> "Green Grow the Laurel" and not in the version Tex sang throughout his career,  
> certainly inspired by the Lynn Riggs play and his involvement in same. As 
> the  piece entered tradition, there were many alterations of both melody and 
> lyrics,  of course. My grandmother, born in 1883, told me a great deal about 
> the song,  and I wish I could recall all the details. I do know that she, 
> like our friend  Frank Luther, sang it as "change the green lilac to the 
> Oregon blue" or "to the  origin blue," or "to the orange and the blue," and not 
> "to the red, white, and  blue."  As to the actual recording of the song, I 
> would assume Frank  Luther's World transcription would be the earliest that we 
> presently know  of.  Interesting topic. 
>  
> Jonathan
>  
>  
> In a message dated 1/12/2014 12:43:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> soundthink at live.com writes:
> 
> Here are  the other 78 rpm versions I have of "Green Grown the Lilacs." All 
> are  post-war.
> 
> Maddox Bros. & Rose (Columbia 21099)
> Tex Ritter &  his Texans (Capitol 206)
> Johnnie Lee Wills & his Boys (Decca  46064)
> 
> Other versions in my library on LP or 45 include Harry  Belafonte, Ed 
> McCurdy, The Chad Mitchell Trio, Frank Luther, The Blue Sky Boys  (their reunion 
> for Rounder in the 1970s), The Jones Brothers, The Easy Riders,  Johnny 
> Cash, and Robin & the Folkstringers (a SESAC  45)
> 
> Cary
> 
> On Jan 12, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Cary Ginell  <soundthink at live.com> wrote:
> 
> > I found another version of it  by Tony Kraber on his Keynote 78 rpm album 
> "The Old Chisholm Trail" (Keynote  104), but that is the one record out of 
> three in the album that I am missing.  The liner notes give the same 
> derivation of "gringo," which may or may not be  true, but it's certainly an 
> interesting story.
> > 
> > I find it  interesting that there are no pre-WWII recordings of this 
> song, in light of  the fact that its life goes back a century before Ritter's 
> version.
> >  
> > Incidentally, Ritter didn't sing the song in "Green Grow the Lilacs."  He 
> did sing four numbers, but not this one. 
> > 
> > Cary
> >  
> > On Jan 12, 2014, at 9:30 AM, Guyotsmith at aol.com wrote:
> >  
> >> Cary, that's an interesting question. Frank Luther sang it  on  a World 
> >> transcription which would pre-date Tex's Capitol  recording - and Frank  
> much 
> >> later included the song on his  final Lp, in stereo, for Pickwick. Frank 
>  also 
> >> sang the song  on my grandmother's NBC radio series. My grandmother and 
> Tex   
> >> Ritter, who also worked together in New York, liked to tell the  story 
> of that 
> >> song's popularity during the 1847 war with Mexico,  and how the 
> soldiers' 
> >> singing  "Green Grow the Lilacs" was  supposedly misinterpreted by the 
> Mexican 
> >> troops,  resulting  in their calling the Americans "gringo" (corrupted 
> from 
> >> "green  grow").  In reality, the term "gringo" is probably a corruption 
> of  
> >> "griego," as you know  - but both my grandmother and Tex  spent decades 
> telling 
> >> the "Green Grow the  Lilacs" story,  and I shared it with my own 
> students 
> >> this past week. 
> >>  
> >> Whereas Tex sings "....and change the green lilacs for the   red, white, 
> and 
> >> blue,"  Frank Luther has it "...and change  the green lilacs  to the 
> Oregon 
> >> blue."  Others sing it  as "the orange and the blue."   Had I been 
> possessed 
> >> of  sufficient intelligence in my younger days, I would have  recorded 
> my  
> >> grandmother singing that song - but I didn't. Her melody - and  Frank  
> Luther's 
> >> - differed from Tex's. Whether Tex sang it  as Lynn Riggs wanted it  
> sung, or 
> >> whether he had known the  song as a youth in Texas, I don't know. He  
> >> sometimes called  it his favorite song.  How many questions would we ask 
> if  we  
> >> could go back in time! 
> >> 
> >> Have a wonderful  week ahead.
> >> 
> >> Jonathan
> >> 
> >>  
> >> In a message dated 1/12/2014 11:51:39 A.M. Eastern Standard  Time,  
> >> soundthink at live.com writes:
> >> 
> >>  Does  anyone know of recordings of the song "Green Grow the Lilacs" 
> that  
> >> predates  Tex Ritter's 1945 Capitol version? The song was  the basis for 
> Lynn 
> >> Riggs' 1931  play, which consisted  entirely of traditional folk songs. 
> >> Rodgers &   Hammerstein later revamped the story, replaced the folk 
> songs with  
> >> their own  compositions, and transformed Broadway with the  resulting 
> show, 
> >> "Oklahoma!"  but I find the orignal show  intriguing. I find no 
> recordings of 
> >> "Green Grow  the Lilacs"  in Russell so wonder if any others were 
> recorded.
> >> 
> >>  Cary  Ginell
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