[78-L] Is it really rarest blues record?, or, Troubled earth

Erwin Kluwer ekluwer at gmail.com
Wed Aug 28 16:36:07 PDT 2013

I agree with you on the Robert Johnson hype.... And I will  put Patton and
Muddy above him in terms of influence ,,,

 "Can you be more specific": just listen to for example to Green River
Blues.. It can  directly projected on a full rock (band ) arrangment...
In terms of drive, bass,-treble counter point .  etc, etc   This is a blue
print.... ..No one  has this done before (at least this good and managed to
get  recorded)

Again I think Patton has influenced modern( rock) music  in a similar
significant way (although more indirectly and  htrough other muscians as
Caruso inflluenced  20th century singing


On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Joe Scott <joenscott at mail.com> wrote:

> "A man [C. Patton] who influenced a Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Howling
> Wolfdirectly (all of them a huge impact on music by themselves) simply IS
> one of the biggest forces in 20th century music...."Regarding Robert
> Johnson, for one thing, Columbia-->Sony are very good at making the public
> believe, have been a for a long time, that a Miles Davis or a Johnny Cash
> or a Frank Sinatra or a Robert Johnson was far more important than his
> equally good peers whose material they don't own. (The copy on the back of
> one of Johnny Cash's CDs points out that he was similar to Miles Davis in
> his importance, so they don't miss a trick.) Columbia could have promoted
> Peg Leg Howell in the '60s as the king of the blues if they wanted, but
> that would have required rock fans to appreciate the sound of a musician 23
> years older than Robert Johnson, not as modern and hip as Johnson's jump
> bluesish music (i.e. actually closer to the farm and early blues than the
> swing jazz feel of Johnson) and any
>  way, as it happens, they didn't.For another, if John Hammond had been
> interested in self-accompanied blues-singing soloists earlier, it likely
> would have been Lemon Jefferson he got into on record and then tried to get
> for a Northern show and told all his friends about, and then Alan Lomax in
> the 1940s might have been visiting Mance Lipscomb and letting people know
> what the dirt in Texas was like, but Hammond was a little young for that.
> In 1941 Muddy owned a record player and owned seven records, six of them
> secular, by Arthur Crudup, Jay McShann (who was similar in style to Count
> Basie), Peetie Wheatstraw, and John Lee Williamson. The songs he played
> live at the time included "St. Louis Blues" and "Blues In The Night," and
> the first song he had learned had been off a Leroy Carr record. Similarly,
> Robert Johnson admired and was influenced by current hitmakers such as
> Kokomo Arnold. These guys were influenced by the local Pattonish sound, and
> by many, many other sounds, and
>  they in turn -- when Howlin' Wolf influenced the lead singer of
> Steppenwolf's "Born To Be Wild," for instance -- influenced people who had
> also been influenced by many, many others. Rock and rollers in general
> cared about Chuck Berry and Little Richard way, way, way more than they
> cared about Howlin' Wolf. Proportionally, the influence of Patton on modern
> rock, indirect and direct, is very, very small."Modern rock can't be
> imagene e without his sound, feel, overal shape and arrangments.."Can you
> be more specific?"These people were indeed not selling the most records or
> were popular with a more mainstrain audience... but commercial succes in
> art has always showed a limited correlation with importance...."I thought
> by "music as it's known today" you meant mainstream music."(BTW only ones
> that come close in terms of importance from the blues( a wrong tem actually
> in terms of the meaning and actual musical content of these
> muscicians)corner are Blind lemon and maybe Lonnie Johns
>  on...."Important to what?Joseph Scott
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