[78-L] E*AY Seller Complaint - Bait & Switch on a $300 Record

[Han Enderman]

The Pm 14000 series is ALWAYS the 1940s reissue series, produced for collectors.
The originals were issued in the 12000 series.
Maybe a pity Ty doesn't list the 14000s indicating it is repro, and maybe he could
add "14000 postwar reissue series not included". 

Long ago I saw the first 14000 being sold for an exaggerated price, but
usually the bidders know what they will get:
3 copies of 14008 were sold for $1, 10 & 27.
5 copies of 14011 were sold for $ 22, 25, 51, 113, 141.
1 copy of 14028 for $38.
I have ca. 200 label scans of the 32 issues (14001-32), and I made a note of 
some fancy prices: 
$195 for 14016, $127 for 14017, $164 for 14025.
You will not find many 14000s on popsike.com, not because they are rare,
but because they are too cheap. If you search "Paramount 78" with lowest price
first, you will find soon a King Oliver, sold 2012-01-07 for $26, and the
description says "40s ISSUE". 

In the present case the seller tells you that he is selling the 1940s Steiner reissue,
even telling you:
"take the time to read the article below... it's a great read"
and there is all info, but he should have said: 
"it's an essential read, to know that I am trying to swindle you".

In his preceding description he tries to mislead the uninformed: 
" What an incredible blues 78 discovery
"
And the absurd price suggests it is rare, whereas - from store stock - he may indeed 
have more.
It seems, however, that 14022 is relatively rare within the series.

Seller still has a Clarence Williams (14008), listed as "Museum Quality".
Same type of fraud.

han enderman
===
>>> Is it possible that the seller had more than one copy of this title and used 
the same photo? The marks on Cliff's copy look as if they're caused by creases 
in the sleeve, and unless the record has also been exposed to extreme 
temperatures, those shouldn't sound (okay, sometimes they do).

dl

On 1/4/2013 10:04 AM, Malcolm - Venerable Music wrote:
> In this case, I'd return it for sure. Even if the seller does not agree, go
> to Resolve a Problem - Not As Described, and start the process. After you
> explain the situation, the seller will have a chance to respond and offer a
> refund, full or partial. If you decide to accept what the seller offers (if
> anything) than you can close the case without escalating it to a dispute. If
> the seller does not respond or will not offer a refund (which would be
> stupid considering Ebay's policies), then you can raise the case to a
> dispute at which time Ebay will take a few days to decide in your favor.
> Once that is done, all you need to do is return the item with some form of
> tracking and ebay will refund the money for the original purchase and
> shipping.
>
> And no matter what Mike says, I also feel that the description is REALLY
> misleading. It seems to be specifically worded in a way to take advantage of
> unseasoned collectors who think they are getting a chance of a lifetime deal
> (which the seller makes sure you know!).
> Why else would anyone even offer a $300 buy it now on such a thing if it
> were not to trying to play to that emotion? Not criminal, but certainly not
> a stand up deal. It's got used car salesman all over it.
>
> Malcolm in GA
>
> Venerable Music - http://www.venerablemusic.com
> Venerable Radio - http://www.venerableradio.com
> 78rpm Record Auctions - http://www.vmauctions.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clifford Bolling
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 9:34 AM
> To: 78-l Online
> Subject: [78-L] E*AY Seller Complaint - Bait&  Switch on a $300 Record
>
> Here are some pictures of the record I received:
>
> http://pdx78s.cdbpdx.com/PAR14022/
>
> Compare that with the photos and description in the auction.  It is the same
> silver label record, just a different one.
>
> 'Twould have been nice to have received an original gold label Paramount of
> this record, even in this condition.
>
> Still haven't heard from 2ndfiddlerecords.  Keeping my fingers crossed!
> Also, there was $2.31 postage due at
> delivery.
>
> CDB
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 00:01:10 -0500
> From: Michael Biel<mbiel at mbiel.com>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] E*AY Seller Complaint - Bait&  Switch on a $300
> Record
> To: 78-L Mail List<78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID:<50E66216.8030100 at mbiel.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Clifford --  Looking through this listing,
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLIND-LEMON-JEFFERSON-Unplayed-PARAMOUNT-14022-Blues-78-Chock-House-Blues-/121039784517?ru=http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=121039784517&_rdc=1&nma=true&si=%2B7OtV2i9HMb0iuzfIS8%2Fl36nfxE%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
>
> he tells a very long and detailed story about how John Steiner
> produced the black and silver pressings in the late 40s.  As Roger said,
> he knew he was selling a late 40s replica, and actually he is telling
> you that in the listing.  As Harold said, he should tell you it is a
> replica if it is, and he DID tell you.  In the specifications under sub
> genre he states "John Steiner: Paramount Records".
>
> You say that the record you received is not the one in the photo. Is it
> a black and silver?  Or did he actually sell a black and gold original
> from the 1920s.  If what you got is a black and silver, whether or not
> it is the exact one in the photo, he told you what it was.  If there is
> significent label damage, that is not noted in the description or photos
> and you might luck out and get a refund.  But you can't get a refund by
> claiming it is a 1920s original because his description never said it
> was.  If the label damage is because it is a black and gold original,
> you did better than could be expected!
>
> Mike Biel mbiel at mbiel.com
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