[78-L] recording sessions on lacquers began . . . ?

[David Lennick]

My theory for years was that Victor and Columbia equalized their records in the 
mid 40s so that each one would sound terrible on the competitor's player. There 
certainly is a unique sound to those things. Oddly enough, I heard Freddy 
Martin's "Managua, Nicaragua" played on 1946 Victor machine and it actually 
sounded like music. Studios make a difference as well..listen to anything 
recorded at the Lotos Club.

dl

On 4/21/2012 5:50 PM, Royal Pemberton wrote:
> Wasn't a lot of that dynamic range reduction (the heavy-handed limiting on
> so many RCA records in the 1940s) a way of making the records last longer
> by eliminating the high peak levels that otherwise got chewed up quickly by
> inferior reproducers back then?  It's a shame, there was a lot of good
> music poorly represented from a sonic standpoint.  Symphony orchestras
> emerge a congested mess on some passages (and that bad sound carried over
> to early 45 and LPs of the same recordings).
>
> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 10:05 PM, David Lennick<dlennick at sympatico.ca>wrote:
>
>> Lousy barely begins to describe it..I think the all time champs from this
>> period are the Boston Pops "Salute to Our Fighting Forces" and the John
>> Charles
>> Thomas sides from the "Highlights from Oklahoma" album, both of which are
>> so
>> full of dubbed-in wow as to be unlistenable. How they were ever passed is
>> beyond me.
>>
>> dl
>>
>> On 4/21/2012 1:20 PM, Michael Biel wrote:
>>> The Victor ledgers state what the recordings were made on, wax, lacquer,
>>> film, etc.  Cutting a Glenn Miller side directly on 78 lacquer as shown
>>> in the film was probably the established procedure long before then.  I
>>> gave Jack Myrtle a set of photocopies of the Spike Jone artist file of
>>> Victor ledgers and I think that most of the discs were 78 lacquers, not
>>> dubs from 33 safeties.  He might have misinterpreted the sheets.  There
>>> are several dubbing sessions in the ledger sheets where new 78 lacquers
>>> are cut from 78 lacquers to reduce the level of a gunshot or some other
>>> problem.  It is quite true that Victors of that era are lousy.
>>>
>>> Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> From: David Lennick<dlennick at sympatico.ca>
>>>
>>> As I understand it, Columbia began recording 33RPM safeties alongside
>>> the 78RPM
>>> masters in 1939, and then decided to use the 33RPMs as source material
>>> soon
>>> thereafter. Decca bought World during the AFM ban and when it ended in
>>> the fall
>>> of 1943, everything was being cut first at 33. There were definitely
>>> other
>>> labels dubbing 78 masters from 33s..Varsity for one (check out the two
>>> very
>>> different issues of "She Had To Go and Lose it at the Astor", which when
>>>
>>> adjusted for speed differences are the same take, and a 45RPM issue of
>>> Jan
>>> Peerce's "Vesti la Giubba" which is full of 33RPM surface noise).
>>>
>>> As for Victor, Jack Mirtle in his Spike Jones book says that original
>>> sessions
>>> began to be cut on 33RPM lacquers in 1944, but from the ghastly quality
>>> of the
>>> issued records from this time, it sounds as if dubs were made and then
>>> re-dubbed and the original lacquers tossed or scrapped or recycled. I
>>> think
>>> there's a note in a Koussevitzky discography (ARSC Journal) that refers
>>> to
>>> 33rpm safety copies in the late 40s. Anyone know for sure?
>>>
>>> dl
>>>
>>> On 4/21/2012 9:10 AM, Milan P Milovanovic wrote:
>>>> And may I ask one further question: were master 78 rpm discs (that went
>>>> later on electroplating) cut directly from the console output or these
>> were
>>>> dubs from 16" master/safety discs used for recording everything in
>> studio
>>>> during session?
>>>>
>>>> It is interesting that in "Orchestra Wives" (1942) Miller's band is
>>>> portrayed while doing recording session on 78 rpm lacqer discs.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Randy Watts"<rew1014 at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: "78-L Mail List"<78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 3:24 AM
>>>> Subject: [78-L] recording sessions on lacquers began . . . ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When did Victor and Columbia begin recording sessions onto 16-inch
>> lacquers?
>>>>
>>>> Randy