[78-L] Toscanini

[David Lennick]

Easing up! I don't HATE the waltz or the Nutcracker, I just tune 'em out.

dl

On 3/13/2012 4:55 PM, Philip Carli wrote:
> I happen to like it myself.  And I know that you say I jump on things, David, but sheesh! " It's one of those pieces that I don't care if I ever hear by anyone, vintage or contemporary..like the Nutcracker Suite. Did his grandkids like it? Did he lose a bet?"  You'd be surprised what I could apply that general comment to in my own tastes, but I wouldn't.  It's not funny, but at least we really know where _you_ stand.  Ease up that hammer!  I'll ease mine too. PC
> ________________________________________
> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com [78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] on behalf of David Lennick [dlennick at sympatico.ca]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 4:31 PM
> To: 78-L Mail List
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Toscanini
>
> I still question why Toscanini would even record the thing. Victor could charge
> more for him than they could for Fiedler, but not after 1940. It's one of those
> pieces that I don't care if I ever hear by anyone, vintage or
> contemporary..like the Nutcracker Suite. Did his grandkids like it? Did he lose
> a bet?
>
> dl
>
> On 3/13/2012 4:24 PM, Philip Carli wrote:
>> There are several references to Toscanini at least partially reorchestrating LES PATINEURS I remember encountering, though I can't cite exactly where at the moment. As for simply adjusting it for a larger orchestra, the original orchestration is big to begin with, and, with an obvious unique exception, standard in Waldteufel dances: strings, double woodwind + piccolo, 4 horns, 2 cornets, 3 trombones, ophicleide or euphonium, tympani, side/bass drums, cymbals, triangle, and of course sleigh bells. (That's the Henry Litolff's Verlag set, which also assigned the piece its fictitious "op.183". When Litolff acquired Waldteufel publication rights, it started assigning its own opus nos. starting at op.100 and going up from there, with several big gaps.)
>>
>> Adding to this is that there is a little debate whether Waldteufel used an orchestrator to begin with, as he was a pianist and evidently composed at the piano initially.  I think not, myself, but that's me and my studies only.  I don't know of any Waldteufel holograph full scores.
>>
>> Finally, a bit of trivia: did you know Waldteufel was the earliest-born (1837) conductor to record?  A very few sides for French Gramophone that didn't last long in the catalogues. I've never heard them, but they're among my top things to track down.
>>
>> PC
>> ________________________________________
>> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com [78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] on behalf of Don Cox [doncox at enterprise.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:26 AM
>> To: 78-L Mail List
>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Toscanini
>>
>> Hello DAVID
>>
>> On 12/03/2012, DAVID BURNHAM wrote:
>>> Didn't Toscanini orchestrate "Skaters' Waltz"?
>>>
>> He performed it, but Waldteufel composed the piece for orchestra, so
>> there would be no need for an orchestral arrangement.
>>
>> Possibly minor adjustments for an orchestra bigger than Waldteufel's
>> own. But I see no mention of "arrangement" in RCA's booklet or in
>> Mortimer Frank's book.
>>
>> Regards
>> --
>> Don Cox
>> doncox at enterprise.net
> _____________________________________