[78-L] more teejus questions from a beginner

[Michael Biel]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [78-L] more teejus questions from a beginner
From: Rod Brown <raudiobrown at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, October 02, 2011 4:24 pm
To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com

Hey all,

Here's the latest in my continuing series of basic questions about
collecting 78s.


Nobody answered your first question, so I'll take it.  

> I just bought a couple of very nice Richard Jose records, mostly because
> the labels were unusual, at least to my eye. They are gold ink on a white
> background, with all the particulars type-written in, and a couple of
> corrections done long-hand with a fountain pen. Are these test pressings, or
> does this type of label have some other significance? 

If the format of the labels are just white versions of standard Victor
formats such as the Batwing, these are probably special order records,
not test pressings. Into the early 40s Victor offered a service which
allowed anyone to order up special pressings of out of print records and
even unissued masters, as long as the metal parts existed.  Some people
were able to find the matrix numbers of things like Caruso recording
sessions and taking a chance they ordered adjacent or missing numbers in
the middle.  Sometimes unissued recordings showed up.  In addition to
the title info and the real record number there is usually another
number which has no discographic significance.  It is the order number
for that collector's order.  All the records included in that order will
have that same number on them. You might find that number on yours if
they were all ordered together. 

> I'd have thought this
> would be a bit early for radio promotional copies, since from what I've
> read, Jose was near the end of his time in Victor's catalog by the late
> teens/early twenties (thanks, Tim Gracyk). Oh, yes--the titles are
> "When You And I Were Young Maggie" and "Dear Old Girl."

The record companies did not want radio stations to play their records,
and even sued some of them.  DJ copies are a post WW II development, and
some credit Capitol as being the first major to have special DJ
pressings.  Jose recorded very early in the century between 1903 and
1909.  The earliest ones would have handwritten matrix numbers, and
these might be early enough.  You didn't say if these were 10 or 12-inch
discs.  These songs appeared on both sizes. The key to what recording
you have would be the take number at the 9 0clock position in the
shellac between the grooves and the label.  

"Dear Old Girl" was recorded first on 12-inch, matrix C-616.  Take one
was recorded Oct 31, 1903 and was issued on 31172.  There were unissued
takes recorded later.  Take 2 was recorded Jan 12, 1904 and take 3 was
recorded Jan 14, 1904.  Late in 1904 there was another set of recordings
of this song.  A new matrix number of C-2041 was assigned for the
12-inch version, and takes one and two were recorded Dec 9 and were
unissued, and take three was recorded on Dec 10, 1904 and also issued on
31172.  The ten inch version was on matrix number B-2041, with unissued
take one recorded on Dec 9, with take two recorded on Dec 10, 1904 and
issued on 4226.

There was only one take recorded of "When You and I Were Young, Maggie".
 12-inch matrix C-2964, take one was recorded Dec 20, 1905 and issued on
31485.  

If you have an unissued take of Dear Old Girl, I know a collector who
will want it.  As I said, there is no report of an unissued take of
Maggie, but if yours is not take one, it will be an interesting find.  


> From the same batch of records, I bought a 12" Columbia, made in England,
> of WIll Fyfe's "I'm 94 To-Day" / "I Belong To Glasgow." I already have a
> 10" version on Regal Zonophone. Can anyone tell me whether one of these
> is considered more collectible than the other, for whatever reason?

The 12-inch version has a longer spoken section than the 10-inchers, but
I prefer the versions he recorded in the U.S. on American Columbia,
probably because those are the versions I grew up with.  I don't think
any of these are especially rare.  I presume both versions you have are
electrical.  
  

> And a more generalized question: I gather there are labels one would always
> try to buy, e.g. Black Patti. Is there a list of labels one might as well
> routinely avoid? I believe I've recently read here that Cameo and Lincoln
> were thought of as copy labels. I never buy Tops, for more or less the same
> reason.

By "copy label" I suppose you mean labels which record songs recorded by
the major labels.  Tops is from a vastly different era, of course, and
was basically a grocery store rack label that covered hits with no-name
artists (Scatman Cruthers being one of the exceptions).  But Cameo was
just one of the many smaller independent labels in the 20s and did a
pretty good job of being a 2nd-line label.  I certainly don't "avoid"
Cameo, and actually the first Cameo I ever had was a GREAT record by
Lucille Hegeman that was in my father's collection for some reason I
could never figure out!  

> Are there others to judiciously neglect?  As always, many thanks, Rod

Some might include the Grey Gull labels, but there are sometimes great
records on them.  My good friend, the late George Blacker, always said
"Never overlook a Grey Gull B side".  To cut costs there would be a
known song on the A side and some unknown song with no royalties on the
B side, sometimes recorded very hot even if the A side was not hot.  

You need to make your own choices and not be led away from something you
might like by what someone else says.  Just keep listening to things and
buy what YOU like, the devil with what others say.  

Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com