[78-L] Swing Time, Down Beat questions

[Philip Fukuda]

Han, Mal, Cary (did I forget anybody?),
Thanks for the information. Turns out to be more complicated than I had originally thought. I'll see if I can add any new label scans.

Phil


Message: 2
Date: Mon, 9 May 2 011 21:41:47 +0200
From: "Han Enderman" <jcenderman at solcon.nl>
Subject: [78-L]  Swing Time, Down Beat questions
To: "78-L" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Message-ID: <362418B3E2574418A1AB9C2E9DABC445 at uwm58xnn8gj9na>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"

Mal, thanks for the scan. Evidently they used some Swing sample blanks when 
the label name already had been changed into Swing Time.

I was not happy with my statement that "Swing Beat is only known from repressings".
Then it should have been used after "Swing" and Mal's example suggests that 
"Swing Time" is the successor of Swing. 
But....
Available Swing Beat images are from following releases:
SB 122, 134, 220 Lowell Fulson,
SB 129, 181 Felix Gross,
SB 158 Witherspoon,
SB 186 Sister Emily Bram,
SB 191 Maxwell Davis,
SB 212 Maxin Trio (Ray Charles),
SB 221 Red Miller-Lloyd Glenn,
None of these 10 releases is known with a Down Beat label !!
And almost certainly these are the original issues.

Down Beat is fairly common and confirmed by images of:
DB 100-107, 109-110, 113-117, 120-121, 124, 126, 131-133, 137-139, 142-148,
152-157, 161, 163, 165, 168, 170-172, 175, 180, 182-184, 187, 189, 194,
203, 205, 211, 219, 230.
I see no pattern in the use of Down Beat or Swing Beat. 
Down Beat also has records by Fulson, Gross, Bram etc. 
Some early issues are known with several label variants
(104 both as Sister Katie Marie and Marie Knight), but retain the DB label.

Can someone tell the label name(s) of missing issues?

Han Enderman
===
>>> I have a scan of Swing 169, a Sample record, by Rete Johnson doing Flat 
Foot Boogie. It's a cream label with red surround and lettering. The 
mast shows Swing Records with the bandleader logo between the two words 
BUT the credit and label number are in black AND the red "Records" is 
overstruck with "Time" in balcs so Swing Records morphs into Swing Time!
Odd.
I'm sending you the scan, Han.
Mal

*******

On 5/9/2011 3:13 AM, Han Enderman wrote:
> This is an interesting problem and information supplied by Carey (below),
> Gart's ARLD and the 1987 Leadbitter-Slaven postwar blues dg (I do not have
> the later and still available postwar blues dg) is contradictory and incomplete.
> I have a large series of label images and here are the ranges with some dates:
>
> Down Beat 100-230; 401; 3002 (Western Series). - 1947-c.10/1949
> Swing (134-)231. - Only one new release: 231 Lowell Fulson. - c.10/1949
> Swing Beat (122-221).
> Swing Time (114-)234-347. - c.3/1950
>
> Some remarks:
> - DB 100 Lucky Thompson
> - DB 128 4/48, 205 5/49 (ARLD release dates) [205 = Jay McShann]
> - (DB)/ST 228/229 Ray Charles [no images seen of the DB issues]
> - Sw 231 Lowell Fulson [not seen on ST]
> - ST 234 Lloyd Glenn 9 Nov 50
> - ST 244 12/50 (ARLD).
> - ST 347 by The Serenaders is last available image.
>
> Apparently 231 is the only new issue on Swing, following DB 230, also by Lowell Fulson.
> I have not seen (Swing Time) 232/233.
> ST 234 by Glenn is common and a recording date (in the blues dg) of 9 Nov 50 fits with
> a release date or announcement in Dec 50.
> Thus Swing Beat is only known from repressings !
> Probably there was no recording activity for a long time in 1950, after the release of 231
> in late 1949.
> This suggests that Swing Beat was introduced late 1949 for repressings and that the
> namewas changed to Swing Time when new recordings were released late 1950.
>
> Recording dates are almost absent in the available blues dg.
> Possibly there is more info in Billboard (difficult to consult here), and some searches in
> Billboard on these artists may help.
>
> Any comments and additional info welcome.
> Han Enderman
> ===
>>>> Jack Lauderdale started the Downbeat Record Company in 1947. For the first couple of years
> Downbeat (or Down Beat) was challenged by legal problems because of the famous jazz magazine
> that bore the same name. This resulted in a series of label name changes;
> first to Swing (there was only one release with this name),
> then Swing Beat for the Christmas 1947 catalog and subsequent recordings after the 1948 strike
> and into 1949.
> In October 1950 it was changed again to Swing Time.
> Ray Charles' first release was on Down Beat 171.
>
> As for the numbering system, I believe that the numbering was not interrupted by the changes in the
> label names and continued, but I can't be certain of this without doing more research.
> The only Down Beat record I own is the aforementioned disc above by The Maxin Trio (actually the
> McSon Trio, with a misheard name), which included Brother Ray's first vocals:
> "I Love You, I Love You" and "Confession Blues."
>
> Cary Ginell
>
>> Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 21:44:51 -0700
>> From: 78rpm at sbcglobal.net
>> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
>> Subject: [78-L] Swing Time, Down Beat questions
>>
>> I've run across Swing Time, Down Beat, Swing and now Swing Beat (combining the 2 names!) labels
> from the 1940s. All with the same label design, so I'm guessing the same ownership.
> I can't figure out if certain artists only appeared on 1 label or several.
> Was the numbering system shared between the labels? Is there any rhyme or reason to all those labels?
>> Thanks,
>> Philip Fukuda
> <<<
>