[78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll

Glenn Longwell glongwell at snet.net
Thu Apr 29 05:44:46 PDT 2010 

This song was actually included on album C-31 Empress of the Blues, side 6, number 35674.  It is take number 2.  It's a "Hot Jazz Classic" album with our famous cover artist Steinweiss.  There is no lead in groove although the flip side has one, "Lost Your Head Blues." 

Glenn

--- On Thu, 4/29/10, Michael Biel <mbiel at mbiel.com> wrote:

From: Michael Biel <mbiel at mbiel.com>
Subject: Re: [78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll
To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Date: Thursday, April 29, 2010, 2:41 AM

I'm disappointed that Bruce has taken the video off of Youtube. I was
hoping to check again to see if I could see the lead-out groove.  This
title was used as side four on "Bessie Smith Vol 1", C-33, issued in
late 1940.  That could be the vintage and the purpose of the test
pressing.  It might have been made to check the condition of a newly
grown stamper, or it could have been the way George Avakian could listen
to recordings to select for the reissue.  (If this had been last week I
could have shown this to Avakian and asked him, since I saw him when he
was interviewed by Dan Morgenstern at the NYC-ARSC.) 

I am also disappointed to hear that the well known disc guru (whose name
was never given) had not actually seen or held the disc but had been
consulted by telephone.  I wouldn't want my name used either if I was
giving authentication by telephone!!  I am glad that I could at least
note via the video that this was probably not a 1926 pressing.  

When this goes up on ebay, we need to see GOOD photos of the label area
with the lead-out groove area, the edge engraved info, and a portion of
the edge itself seen head-on to the edge, preferably at a rough or
uneven section.  The back might be nice as well, especially if there is
a rear label.  The written description must give assurance as to whether
the disc is solid shellac or laminated shellac (since we have been
assured it is not vinyl) and should not use the word "original". 

Although C-33 is not noted as having used dubs as C-8 the Bessie Smith
Memorial Album had, I would not rule out the possibility of this being a
dub without being able to CLEARLY see the lead-out grooving and the rim
information.  If someone has C-33 available, we could use a report as to
what the lead-out grooving was, and if a lead-in groove was grafted on
the outer rim.  I just got C-46 Hot Trombones on Monday at Wet Willies
in Pittsburgh and there were no lead-in grooves.  

Bruce, I sense from your answers that you had no idea this could be so
complicated!!  There are a whole bunch of us here saying to ourselves
that all could be figured out if we could look and hold the actual disc
for 15 or 30 seconds!!  

Mike Biel   mbiel at mbiel.com  


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll
From: "Sean Miller" <smille1 at nycap.rr.com>
Date: Wed, April 28, 2010 9:45 pm
To: "'78-L Mail List'" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>

You just took the words out of the email I was just composing!

I was also going to add the possibility of it being laminated rather
than
vinyl, but by the early 50s, I'd imagine Columbia tests would be vinyl
since
all the DJ pressings were. I know I have a couple of tests with this
label
that are laminated and have at least a couple in non-laminated shellac,
but
these are 1940s pressings, I think. The ones I have all seem to play
best
with a slightly smaller stylus, like a 2.5 or maybe even a 2.3,
especially
if it's a mid 1920s electric Columbia master we're dealing with. 

Sean

-----Original Message-----
From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
[mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] On Behalf Of David Lennick
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 9:36 PM
To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
Subject: Re: [78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll


Have we determined that this is indeed a shellac or vinyl pressing? It
didn't sound like shellac to me, more like a disc being played with an
improperly matched stylus like the ones typically found in turnover
cartridges. Many vinyls sound that noisy till you try a few different
points
on them, and that label looks like what I've seen on many 40s and early
50s
vinyls. A vinyl pressing would have been made at the time Columbia was
issuing its first Bessie Smith LPs in the early 50s, to determine if the
recording was worth reissuing.

dl
 
> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 01:26:58 +0000
> From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net
> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll
> 
> Pursing Fiction, Please !! Not having ever owned a Test Pressing record,
and not having the knowledge of one that you experts have I turned to a
trusted friend and called him with information and he concluded based on
what I told him in describing the record that it was in fact an original
test pressing from 1926. Unfortunately I left out one key incrediant in
the
analysis and that was the name of the Columbia Recording Company. Having
said that, again thanks to everyone who have come forward with
additional
information so I can post an accurate description of this record when it
goes on Ebay this weekend. Not having the knowledge of these Test
Pressings
and how they were handled by the record company, I was told that Take 2,
which this is, was the actually take released by Columbia at this
Recording
session for mass distribution to the General Public. Given that, why was
it
necessary to do another test pressing of Take to in 1939 or thereafter ?
Maybe to determine if the master was still in suitable condition for
mass 
distribution ? Just a guess,
maybe there is better answer, can anyone help on on this?  Bruce 

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim Shulman" <jshul at comcast.net> 
> To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com> 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 4:47:45 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll 
> 
> Amazingly, nobody has commented on the video postings that this is a 
> later-than-1926 pressing! 
> He's still pursuing that fiction. 
> 
> That's not to say it's not a fascinating record, and perhaps a pressing of
> an unissued take (a Bessie Smith expert would have to confirm or deny
that.) 
> It's also likely desirable to a collector. However, it sure wasn't pressed
> in '26! 
> 
> If there were a label for custom pressings (or test pressings) in 1926
that 
> identified the company, it would have been called the "Columbia Phonograph

> Company", not the "Columbia Recording Corporation". 
> 
> I've owned some Ellington test pressings from the 1940s with this same 
> label. 
> 
> Jim Shulman 
> Wynnewood, PA 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com 
> [mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] On Behalf Of Sean Miller 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 4:24 PM 
> To: '78-L Mail List' 
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll 
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think this is an "original" 1926

> test by any means. Columbia tests from the 1920s didn't use that label at 
> all, but a much plainer one. I've seen plenty of late 1930s, 1940s and 
> 1950s era tests on the label type of your Smith test, even many of earlier

> material like this, so my guess is that you have a later era (late 1930s
or 
> 1940s) test pressing on shellac from the original master, not a 1920s test

> pressing at all. I'm not saying it isn't a cool piece by any means, just 
> that it's a later test pressing.  Sean 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com 
> [mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] On Behalf Of 
> bruce78rpm at comcast.net 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 11:55 AM 
> To: 78-L 
> Subject: [78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLTRUwskzC4 
> 
> Bessie Smith Original Test Pressing from May 4, of 1926. 
> 
> An advance peek at the Actual Record that will be posted for Sale on 
> Saturday. 
> ______________________________________________

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