[78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll

[bruce78rpm at comcast.net]

Good God, This almost sounds like a summation the James Mason Character would have brow beat the Jury with in a scene out of "the Verdict". Lighten up, there is no permenent harm here, just a mistake that has been corrected, I explained what went on for God sakes, Believe me I take full blame for my initial errors, and if you want to brow beat me and what I did go ahead. But don't pass verdict on my friend and fellow collector. I let everyone see what I had, and what I thought I had, and you folks were nice enough to straighten out the details. Unfortunately I like many, I allowed myself to get caught up in the excitement of thinking I had something really rare and valuable coupled with wanting to do something good and decent for the widow of a Good Friend. Why do you now have to take to the discussion to a lower and uncalled for level ? I know what I did wrong and as for the video, yes I pulled it, because I did not want to continue to disseminate what I know now is incorrect information, I will put it on back on ASAP and utilize some written text taken from some of the expert detailed information you folks on the 78rpm were kind enough to provide. So please, back off a bit, take a deep breath a couple of happy pills, Today is a new day. 

Bruce 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Biel" <mbiel at mbiel.com> 
To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com> 
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 2:41:27 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: Re: [78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll 

I'm disappointed that Bruce has taken the video off of Youtube. I was 
hoping to check again to see if I could see the lead-out groove. This 
title was used as side four on "Bessie Smith Vol 1", C-33, issued in 
late 1940. That could be the vintage and the purpose of the test 
pressing. It might have been made to check the condition of a newly 
grown stamper, or it could have been the way George Avakian could listen 
to recordings to select for the reissue. (If this had been last week I 
could have shown this to Avakian and asked him, since I saw him when he 
was interviewed by Dan Morgenstern at the NYC-ARSC.) 

I am also disappointed to hear that the well known disc guru (whose name 
was never given) had not actually seen or held the disc but had been 
consulted by telephone. I wouldn't want my name used either if I was 
giving authentication by telephone!! I am glad that I could at least 
note via the video that this was probably not a 1926 pressing. 

When this goes up on ebay, we need to see GOOD photos of the label area 
with the lead-out groove area, the edge engraved info, and a portion of 
the edge itself seen head-on to the edge, preferably at a rough or 
uneven section. The back might be nice as well, especially if there is 
a rear label. The written description must give assurance as to whether 
the disc is solid shellac or laminated shellac (since we have been 
assured it is not vinyl) and should not use the word "original". 

Although C-33 is not noted as having used dubs as C-8 the Bessie Smith 
Memorial Album had, I would not rule out the possibility of this being a 
dub without being able to CLEARLY see the lead-out grooving and the rim 
information. If someone has C-33 available, we could use a report as to 
what the lead-out grooving was, and if a lead-in groove was grafted on 
the outer rim. I just got C-46 Hot Trombones on Monday at Wet Willies 
in Pittsburgh and there were no lead-in grooves. 

Bruce, I sense from your answers that you had no idea this could be so 
complicated!! There are a whole bunch of us here saying to ourselves 
that all could be figured out if we could look and hold the actual disc 
for 15 or 30 seconds!! 

Mike Biel mbiel at mbiel.com 


-------- Original Message -------- 
Subject: Re: [78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll 
From: "Sean Miller" <smille1 at nycap.rr.com> 
Date: Wed, April 28, 2010 9:45 pm 
To: "'78-L Mail List'" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com> 

You just took the words out of the email I was just composing! 

I was also going to add the possibility of it being laminated rather 
than 
vinyl, but by the early 50s, I'd imagine Columbia tests would be vinyl 
since 
all the DJ pressings were. I know I have a couple of tests with this 
label 
that are laminated and have at least a couple in non-laminated shellac, 
but 
these are 1940s pressings, I think. The ones I have all seem to play 
best 
with a slightly smaller stylus, like a 2.5 or maybe even a 2.3, 
especially 
if it's a mid 1920s electric Columbia master we're dealing with. 

Sean 

-----Original Message----- 
From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com 
[mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] On Behalf Of David Lennick 
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 9:36 PM 
To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com 
Subject: Re: [78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll 


Have we determined that this is indeed a shellac or vinyl pressing? It 
didn't sound like shellac to me, more like a disc being played with an 
improperly matched stylus like the ones typically found in turnover 
cartridges. Many vinyls sound that noisy till you try a few different 
points 
on them, and that label looks like what I've seen on many 40s and early 
50s 
vinyls. A vinyl pressing would have been made at the time Columbia was 
issuing its first Bessie Smith LPs in the early 50s, to determine if the 
recording was worth reissuing. 

dl 

> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 01:26:58 +0000 
> From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net 
> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com 
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll 
> 
> Pursing Fiction, Please !! Not having ever owned a Test Pressing record, 
and not having the knowledge of one that you experts have I turned to a 
trusted friend and called him with information and he concluded based on 
what I told him in describing the record that it was in fact an original 
test pressing from 1926. Unfortunately I left out one key incrediant in 
the 
analysis and that was the name of the Columbia Recording Company. Having 
said that, again thanks to everyone who have come forward with 
additional 
information so I can post an accurate description of this record when it 
goes on Ebay this weekend. Not having the knowledge of these Test 
Pressings 
and how they were handled by the record company, I was told that Take 2, 
which this is, was the actually take released by Columbia at this 
Recording 
session for mass distribution to the General Public. Given that, why was 
it 
necessary to do another test pressing of Take to in 1939 or thereafter ? 
Maybe to determine if the master was still in suitable condition for 
mass 
distribution ? Just a guess, 
maybe there is better answer, can anyone help on on this? Bruce 

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim Shulman" <jshul at comcast.net> 
> To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com> 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 4:47:45 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll 
> 
> Amazingly, nobody has commented on the video postings that this is a 
> later-than-1926 pressing! 
> He's still pursuing that fiction. 
> 
> That's not to say it's not a fascinating record, and perhaps a pressing of 
> an unissued take (a Bessie Smith expert would have to confirm or deny 
that.) 
> It's also likely desirable to a collector. However, it sure wasn't pressed 
> in '26! 
> 
> If there were a label for custom pressings (or test pressings) in 1926 
that 
> identified the company, it would have been called the "Columbia Phonograph 

> Company", not the "Columbia Recording Corporation". 
> 
> I've owned some Ellington test pressings from the 1940s with this same 
> label. 
> 
> Jim Shulman 
> Wynnewood, PA 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com 
> [mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] On Behalf Of Sean Miller 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 4:24 PM 
> To: '78-L Mail List' 
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll 
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think this is an "original" 1926 

> test by any means. Columbia tests from the 1920s didn't use that label at 
> all, but a much plainer one. I've seen plenty of late 1930s, 1940s and 
> 1950s era tests on the label type of your Smith test, even many of earlier 

> material like this, so my guess is that you have a later era (late 1930s 
or 
> 1940s) test pressing on shellac from the original master, not a 1920s test 

> pressing at all. I'm not saying it isn't a cool piece by any means, just 
> that it's a later test pressing. Sean 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com 
> [mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] On Behalf Of 
> bruce78rpm at comcast.net 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 11:55 AM 
> To: 78-L 
> Subject: [78-L] Original 1926 Columbia Test Pressing - Baby Doll 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLTRUwskzC4 
> 
> Bessie Smith Original Test Pressing from May 4, of 1926. 
> 
> An advance peek at the Actual Record that will be posted for Sale on 
> Saturday. 
> ______________________________________________ 

_______________________________________________ 
78-L mailing list 
78-L at klickitat.78online.com 
http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l