[78-L] Miles Davis etc [was Thelonious Monk [was Leonard

[Dan Van Landingham]

Al Cohn was another sloppy tenor player.I remember reading about the time Cohn was with Boyd Raeburn
and Johnny Bothwell fired him from the section not Raeburn.



________________________________
From: Jeff Sultanof <jeffsultanof at gmail.com>
To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 3:59:04 PM
Subject: Re: [78-L] Miles Davis etc [was Thelonious Monk [was Leonard

It wasn't all trumpet players. More than a few sax players made mistakes on
record as well during the bop era. I believe it was Barry Ulanov who coined
the phrase "sloppy boppers."

And this was one of the reasons that some writers championed Tristano over
many of the boppers. When Konitz and Marsh played the head, the performance
was meticulous.

Jeff Sultanof

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Geoffrey Wheeler <dialjazz at verizon.net>wrote:

> Regarding Davis fluffs: I cited the Capitol recording of “Move” as an
> example. Davis’ fluffs are not only in his solos, which would likely be
> a matter of his ideas running ahead of his ability to execute them
> cleanly, but also in ensemble passages, which were presumably scored.
> If one were to do a “Benedetti” on early Miles’ solos, capturing only
> his solos as Benedetti did for Parker, the result might be
> embarrassing. A number of bop trumpeters had problems with execution.
> This includes Miles, Kenny Dorham, Howard McGhee, and even Fats Navarro
> and Clifford Brown. Two causes of the problem may have been the killer
> tempos and the, at times, complex original compositions. Some of the
> ensemble work on Gene Norman “Just Jazz” concert recordings is just
> plain sloppy. Even saying this, I remain fascinated by it all!
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