[78-L] KKK records

Michael Biel mbiel at mbiel.com
Thu Mar 4 14:37:50 PST 2010

I don't want to cut-and-past the whole thing again, but have a few 

Bertrand CHAUMELLE wrote:
> Are you collecting Charles Manson records, 
> too ? Come on...
Yes I do collect the records of Charles Manson.  And of Mao, Stalin, 
Adolph and Charlie and his Orch.  I collect all sorts of historical and 
documentary recordings.  The good and the evil.  They are all 
fascinating -- and not just for the content. I research the companies, 
the recording technology, the discographical info, and certainly don't 
get to play them all.  In fact I played the Manson record only to make a 
dub for a former student who was making a film about him.  Not one for 
my ipod -- if I had one!

 > I'm interested in sound recordings because they aren't directly 
related to
 > human suffering, torture, mass murders, racism, genocide, etc.

Most unfortunately you are wrong.  All of these subjects are available 
on sound recordings in the testimony of those who have suffered, and in 
a few cases from those who were responsible.  There are the recordings 
of the victims of the crimes.  And recordings have played an active part 
IN torture.  Remember the recent disclosure of exactly which records 
were used by the fiends of the Bush administration as part of the sleep 
deprivation torture Chaney is so proud of?  But the Clinton 
administration has blood on its hands in Waco, and loud endless music 
was used there also as torture to soften them up.  In both instances the 
performers are furious -- some have sued.  So recordings have been 
directly related to all of these things.

>>  I placed no value judgment on the content, and you should not have assumed so.
> +++That's precisely what I'm blaming you for: you act as a computer, 
> not as a human being. 

I don't have to like and feel happy about all of the recordings or films 
or plays or newscasts I see or hear.  It's life. In many cases I dont 
listen or watch things to be entertained, but to learn.

> How many black people are on this List and 
> enjoy collecting KKK records ? Please raise your hand.

Early in this thread it was mentioned that there are a lot a Black 
collectors of racist artifacts.

> The KuKluxKlan isn't the NAACP.

There are those in our society who feel that that the NAACP is an evil 

>  Those "innocuous" 
> records were issued by an organization who wanted to kill as many 
> colored people as possible.

Actually they were not a genocide organization.  They selectively 
murdered to create an "example" for the others to tear.  They wanted 
their servants, low-salaried workers, their second-class citizens to 
scapegoat as the cause of their troubles.  There were a few race-riots, 
but mostly it was one at a time, as punishment for a specified crime -- 
real or imagined.  They were terrorists, not genocidists.  These records 
were apparently part of the recruitment tools, and as entertainment at 
gatherings they might also be used for inspiring the group.  They are a 
look into what made them tick, and what we might want to guard against 
even now.

>  Your first concern should be to have 
> compassion for their victims: this is more important than academic 
> standards, don't you think ? 

The best way is to remember what had been done to them.    Survivors of 
the Nazis have a rallying cry NEVER FORGET! which is used as recordings, 
films, books, and museum exhibits of the worst crimes are exhibited.

> +++BS. You can write about anything with no particular knowledge, 
> providing that you recognize the right of better-informed individuals 
> to correct your affirmations. That's why there are discussion Lists, 
> isn't it ?

The falsehoods have a tendency to linger and be repeated.  I dislike 
when false information is supplied, either accidentally by ignorance, or 
purposefully.  Our country is suffering because we have a major "news" 
organization which has openly admitted that they have given their 
commentators permission to lie, to broadcast things that are not 
factual, to misstate poll findings, to misqute people, to deny their 
errors when confronted with them, all because in a free country they 
CAN.  They even won a law suit brought against them by two journalists 
they fired because they would not falsify an investigative series they 
were preparing.  The courts found that news does not have to be 
truthful.  (And if anybody doubts it, I will give you the URLs to the 
interviews with the head of the "news" channel, and the court citations 
for the lawsiut.)  The reason why our country is suffering is because 
there are too many damn fools out there who believe and repeat these 
documented lies!!  That was Goebbles' technique.  The Big Lie, say it 
often enough and it is believed.  History IS repeating itself.  And I am 
convinced that "It CAN Happen Here."  But denying it happened in the 
past and destroying the evidence is not the way to stop it.  
>>   That is why I clearly and openly stated
>> that I have not hard any of these records except for the normal Gennett
>> issue of "Keep Cool With Coolidge" which I can report has absolutely no
>> objectionable or racist content.
> +++But they were released by a racist organization, right ? 

Some non-racist recordings from the general catalog appeared on their 

> I don't to 
> want to hear any National-Socialist records either, even if it's just 
> "let's have a good beer, brothers".

I know some very, very anti-Nazis who collect Nazi records including one 
noted author who wrote the book on them.  Same with some friends who 
lived under the Soviets.  We listen and laugh -- we can now because we 
know who won!
> +++Yes, Mike, but don't we all know what the KuKluxKlan stands for ? 
> They hide themselves under white sheets and go out at night to kill and 
> burn their neighbors. What more is there to investigate ?????? Do you 
> intend to rehabilitate those guys !? Do you have a suspicion history 
> has been unfair to them ? 

Certainly not, but the evidence should not be destroyed once the verdict 
is in.  All scientific studies and all research should be repeatable. 

Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com 

More information about the 78-L mailing list