[78-L] fwd: Marsalis makes the world safe for pure jazz^

Wed Dec 23 10:05:25 PST 2009

Add Tiny Kahn - one of the unsung greats of drumming. He died at 29, which could explain his obscurity. 

Cary Ginell

> From: simmonssomer at comcast.net
> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 12:57:34 -0500
> Subject: Re: [78-L] fwd: Marsalis makes the world safe for pure jazz^
> 
> Some foremost swing and pre-swing era groovers on the drum kit.
> (Temp list...totally incomplete.)
> Jo Jones
> Johnny Blowers
> JimmyCrawford
> Buddy Rich
> Maurice Purtill (with Norvo only)
> Ray McKinley
> Dave Tough
> Cozy Cole
> Ben Pollack
> Vic Berton
> Baby Dodds (as the fount)
> 
> Al Simmons
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "eugene hayhoe" <jazzme48912 at yahoo.com>
> To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 11:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [78-L] fwd: Marsalis makes the world safe for pure jazz^
> 
> 
> I don't believe I've ever heard a record with Elvin Jones on it that didn't 
> have very strong grooves, regardless of the personnel, tempo, materials, 
> etc. He's not unique in that among post-bebop drummers, but I'm guessing 
> there's not much interest in putting together a list like that on this list 
> (not that I'm much of a listmaking type anyway). Pullen-Adams-Richmond was 
> just the Mingus band w/o Charles (and both were great bands to my mind).
> 
> Gene
> 
> --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Cary Ginell <soundthink at live.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Cary Ginell <soundthink at live.com>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] fwd: Marsalis makes the world safe for pure jazz^
> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 11:20 AM
> 
> 
> 
> My definition of groove came from something Herbie Mann told me once. The 
> "groove" is akin to the waves of the ocean, with his melody line riding on 
> top of the waves. It has a lot to do with kinetic energy, perpetual motion, 
> which can be achieved through rhythm, riffs, anything that keeps the 
> momentum going forward. That's how you can listen to a song like Jimmy 
> Smith's "The Champ," which encompasses and entire LP side, and not want it 
> to end.
> 
> 
> 
> Cary Ginell
> 
> > Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:15:36 +0000
> > From: julianvein at blueyonder.co.uk
> > To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> > Subject: Re: [78-L] fwd: Marsalis makes the world safe for pure jazz^
> >
> > Cary Ginell wrote:
> > The problem I have with the so-called "free jazz" is that it doesn't
> > have the element common to other forms of jazz: a groove. If a Cecil
> > Taylor fan can find a groove in his music, more power to him, but I've
> > sampled quite a bit of it and just do
> > n't care for it. Maybe I'm not "deep." Maybe I can't see the poetry in
> > Coltrane's late-career squawks. But that's fine. I won't deny them their
> > place in jazz. But I will deny them a place on my shelves. Even so, I
> > won't condemn an entire period without cause. That's why I love Eric
> > Dolphy and the work he did on Coltrane's "Africa Brass" sessions on
> > Impulse. There is some of it that is accessible to someone like me. So I
> > keep listening.
> >
> > Cary Ginell
> > =============
> > I'm not sure what you mean by "groove", but Taylor's music is not random
> > as it may appear to some. Compare his solo on "E.B." (Candid) with a
> > solo he plays with Ayler on the Revenant box set. They're virtually
> > identical--when I heard the latter I was able to whistle along with it!
> >
> > I only got to hear "Africa Brass" properly in recent years, and found it
> > was a disappointment, in that there is no "punch line" to the
> > performance, it just drifts on and on. Regarding his Impulse! quartet
> > recordings, I was playing these recently and thought to myself, "this is
> > pop music!" They came in the aftermath of his Atlantic "My Favorite
> > Things". Something akin to Jonah Jones's "Muted Jazz". And McCoy Tyner's
> > piano playing is always a pain in the butt.
> >
> > I have most of Coltrane's work, but don't necessarily like it all--much
> > of it was purchased because it was cheap. Pruning time will come 
> > eventually.
> >
> > Julian Vein
> >
> >
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> >
> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
> >
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
> >
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