[78-L] classical stuff

[Michael Biel]

Steve Barr's comments on his disaffection with classical music on 78s
are interesting.  Especially about not being able to reassemble
performances which have been chopped up on 78 sets.  I have discussed
this with many collectors who grew up on classical music from 78 sets,
and ALL of them have said that they KNOW where the side breaks should be
when they hear a continuous recording or a LIVE performance!!!  In the
occasional cases where the side breaks on two different performances
were different, we have an internal battle with how we anticipate where
the breaks should be.  



Likewise about his not hearing much difference between different
performances of classical works which, of course, rely on following a
set score.  The variations are subtle, in pop music they can be widely
variant.   I've likened different musical forms as being like a
language.  Only when you are fluent in the language can you really start
to hear the differences in accents.  And sometimes you never hear your
"foreign accent" when you speak a language that is not your primary one.
 Pop music and blues are Steve's primary language and he hears the
subtle differences.  Maybe not so much in classical.  


How about rap or hip-hop?  I KNOW there are differences among performing
styles in these genres, but I don't hear 'em.  And I know that rappers
are MYSTIFIED by classical music and even some regular pop music.  They
do not understand variations in rhythm and dynamics as purveying emotion
or meaning.  The first time I looked at a Brooklyn College newspaper
when Leah started there, there was a review of a classical concert that
was a class assignment for a rapper taking a music appreciation course. 
 He discussed how the cymbal player was playing at random times.  He
only understood  S T E A D Y   B E A T S .   I'm not sure he heard the
melody.  That also was random notes, up and down, irregularly timed. 
Sometimes we feel that rappers are tone deaf -- that might actually be
true!  That is not an important aspect of their "musical language", much
like some orientals do not hear the differences between the letters L
and R.  And there are aspects in their languages that we do not hear --
it is not racial, it is how we learned sounds in childhood.        



Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com  





  -------- Original Message --------
 Subject: Re: [78-L] classical stuff
 From: "Steven C. Barr" <stevenc at interlinks.net>
 Date: Sat, November 07, 2009 9:38 pm
 To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
 
 ----- Original Message ----- 
 From: "DAVID BURNHAM" <burnhamd at rogers.com>
 >I realize that while there is an abundance of knowledge about
classical 
 >recordings on this list, there isn't a huge amount of discussion about

 >classical music here. I have come across a lot of interesting facts
about 
 >pop recordings during the last few years here but it really isn't a
forum 
 >for indepth discussions on the classical side of things.
 >
 > The reason I mention this is because I just received a shipment of 
 > interesting classical 78s from e-bay and I would like to share my
delight 
 > with these items.
 <snip>
 I can only speak for myself....but what few classical 78's I own were 
 included in large
 "mass-acquisitions" of bulk 78's! In fact, the ONLY classical 78 which
I 
 enjoy listening
 to is Rachmaninoff's(sp?) recording of his own 2nd Piano Concerto...in
which 
 he
 successfully includes his own emotional content (which I have learned
to 
 listen for
 through my enthusiasm for blues recordings! Over the years, I have 
 accumulated
 a few hundred 12" (mostly) classical 78's...primarily Victor "Red Seal"

 discs. While
 I do enjoy listening to classical music...I find that the "chopping up"
of 
 classical
 performances which occurs when they are issued on 78 "album sets" is
well 
 beyond
 my mind's ability to mentally "reassemble!"
 
 My own opinion...probably NOT shared by other 78-L listeners...?!
 


The other fact involved is this: 78rpm recordings of popular music are
most
 usually the only remaining example of how the songs were played/
 interpreted when they were first played! Classical recordings generally
 used already-extant scores, and vary only in the individual
interpretations
 of the different conductors!
 
 I don't hear a lot of difference, for example, in the various 78rpm
album
 sets containing Beethoven's Fifth Symphony...perhaps I need to learn
the
 differences...?!
 

Steven C. Barr 
 
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