[78-L] New Lead-ins and outs (was: label Info.)

[Steven C. Barr]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Biel" <mbiel at mbiel.com>
> From: "Steven C. Barr" <stevenc at interlinks.net>
>> Columbia's usual problem was that their 78 masters (Columbia and Okeh)
>> were too large to fit on their later (1939-onward) 78's, necessitating
>> dubbed sides on reissues! As well, (RCA) Victor dubbed virtually ALL
>> their reissues of 78rpm material...apparently to allow the inclusion
>> of run-in and run-out grooving amenable to "record changers!"
> I hate to see "folklore" like this being posted on 78-L over and over
> and over, because it just is not true.  Repeating it over and over and
> over (perhaps because you forgot you have posted it already) will not
> make it any more true than it wasn't the first time you passed this
> falsehood on.  There are many 20s and early 30s original master Columbia
> and OKeh's on later Columbia pressings, and likewise there are many,
> many, many early original master Victors -- even operatic ACOUSTICALS --
> on 1940s and 1950s RCA Victor pressings.  How else do you think Graham
> Newton did the red vinyl Heritage Series in the post war 40s?  I've got
> 15-1001 sitting right in front of me and you can even see part of the
> handwritten info that extended outside of the smaller label area of this
> issue.  It has "run-in and run-out grooving amenable to 'record
> changers'", and evidence where the original release number was shaved
> off or filled in on the master.  Lead-ins and lead-outs were routinely
> grafted onto early masters over and over and over and over, etc.  The
> records exist.  STOP FEEDING US THIS FOLKLORE that can be easily refuted
> by the actual records. I know better, and Lennick knows better, but you
> are misleading the newbie who asked the question.  YOU ARE JUST PLAIN
> WRONG.   
> 
Thus spaketh GOD?!

To begin with, I own a fair number of CBS (red Columbia) reissues of old
Columbia and Okeh sides...which are visibly NOT "master pressings,"
and often bear later matrix numbers! As well, I have noticed that older
Okeh and Columbia records do NOT fit in other-make sleeves
(particularly late-forties and fifties sleeves!). Logically, a Columbia/
Okeh pressing, being a bit larger than post-1940(+/-) records, would
have been too large to be press-able on later Columbia records; this
would explain why many of the latter use dubbed matrices...?! Since
red-label reissues appeared in the early forties (often promoting
"Never before heard on record!")...it would appear that CBS
substituted dubbed versions...most likely because the original
stampers were intended for the slightly-larger records issued by
Columbia 192?-1934?!

Second...almost ALL Victor and HMV-Victor records issued in
the 1943?-47 or 8 era are visibly NOT master pressings! In some
cases, Canadian issues are master pressings while US issues are
visibly NOT...in other cases, the opposite is true! In fact, one of
our Canadian contingent has made a major project of identifying 
and listing the "master/dub" status of various (RCA) Victor
issues of this period...and presents his updates each year at
the CCC! One presumes that RCA had some logical reason
for dubbing most of their older records; they WEREN'T doing
this to baffle us 78 collectors?

So, which of the above are you dismissing as "falsehood?!"
Or...is the point to make sure I am written off, and thus don't
threaten your "Most knowledeable" status in the 78 community?!

Steven C. Barr
(who was VERY offended by your post!!)