[78-L] Lost Chords vs. different genes

[soundthink at aol.com]

Exactly my thoughts. I never suggested that jazz was primarily an invention of whites. That would be as ridiculous as what Marsalis et. al. claimed. What I was saying is that Burns laid ALL of the credit on blacks for initiating and developing jazz, while white musicians followed along like obedient puppies, ripping them off, and reaping the greater financial rewards. If you go back to ragtime (which you must, in order to grasp the history accurately), you will see black and white ragtime songwriters together. Music dissemination in America is much too complex to say anything categorically, but Burns thought that would make a better story. The worst kind of historian is the one who has a theory and goes out to prove it, rather than make the facts dictate the history. Burns has done some remarkable work, but I think he was out of his league when he did "Jazz" and let Marsalis, Crouch, and Murray lead him in the myopic direction they have perpetuated in their teachings. 

Incidentally, I went to see Burns give an address in Thousand Oaks last month. The subject of "Jazz" never came up, but I found him to be intelligent, insightful, open to alternate viewpoints, and possessing of a good sense of humor. So, hopefully, by now he realizes that he was misled, but without speaking to this subject specifically, I could not tell.

Cary Ginell


-----Original Message-----
From: Taylor Bowie <bowiebks at isomedia.com>
To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Sent: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 3:16 pm
Subject: [78-L] Lost Chords vs. different genes



Steve Thornton wrote:

It is absolutely true to say that there are a myriad of sources of jazz, but
to pretend that it is not at its heart, in its beginning, a black music is
ludicrous. Yes, white players heard what black players were doing, and added
their own creative ideas in their own playing. By the time you get to Bix,
for example, jazz was already spread quite far by, among other things, the
riverboat bands; but Bix didn't invent anything. He was a creative genius
and innovator to be sure but he certainly didn't develop independently.



Perhaps one thing we can all agree on is that no one in jazz,  including 
Bix, Bolden, Armstrong, etc. developed independently.  And surely the sound 
of the European-style orchestras and instruments had a strong effect as to 
how early black players developed their sound,  if not their style?

I am comfortable to say that jazz originated with black musical sources but 
that many other elements came along to make it what it has become.  Trying 
to decide the exact percentages of black,  white,  or other ethnic 
influences is about as difficult  as figuring out how many angels can dance 
on the head of a pin,  as some scholars tried to do hundreds of years ago.

And no one can deny that, after a while,  there was cross-polination if you 
will.  Lester Young famously said that his early influences included 
Trumbauer and Jimmy Dorsey,  and Ella Fitzgerald on one occasion cited 
Connee Boswell as her first "model."  Rex Stewart has written eloquently 
about the influence of both Armstrong and Beiderbeck on his own 
playing...and you can sure hear it on many of Rex's records.


Taylor





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