[78-L] Lunceford was:What the &@#$ is going on? ^

[yves francois]

Hi Julian (and anyone else who wants to get in ,Taylor, Al?)

    As you know I am more of a fan of Lunceford, but I must say that much of the recorded output by the 1934/7 Lunceford band do not really strike me as jazz or even swing (this does not mean I dislike it). Bands at that time could not keep a recording contract playing jazz very much (look at Willie Bryant, playing "I'm Grateful To You" or "I Like Bananas", or the numerous rather stale readings of stocks by Teddy Hill's band on Bluebird in 1937* or quite a few Chick Webb records of the period). I think what attracts me to the band is the sonic qualities of the arrangements, there is a large orchestral palate being used to good sonic effect (as in many records by Paul Whiteman). However, I wonder if this was meant to be a dance record, there are (as in other Durham arrangements for the Lunceford band at the time, cf "Oh Boy"^) a great effort towards novelty in sounds, that reminds me of another genre that I happen to like (and do not consider it jazz
 either, but also employs jazz musicians and
 rhythms) and that is the studio recordings by Pete Rugolo and (even less jazz oriented) Juan Garcia Esquivel (in current parlance records like those are called "Space Age Bachelor Pad Music"). As an arranger I happen to like this sort of music, but a lot of arranging effects can stifle the basic essence of swing in music.
  That the Lunceford band could swing when it wanted to is in several records. My major question about many of Lunceford's earlier Decca's is the insistence to change the groove, the stopping the rhythm for 4 bars for a brass ensemble (like Whiteman, I believe there was a substantial influence there in the arrangers and even, in the case of Durham, to adapt himself to those ends), and the frequent change from 2/4 to 4/4. It is dizzying at times, sometimes it does work, and sometimes (like "Charmaine") I just stand perplexed at what they were trying to get at+. This does not mean I dislike the records, just wondering what they were trying to get at. At its best the band sounds like to be the perfect band to dance to ("Ain't She Sweet").
  Re: jazz soloists Julian, I remember a post a year or so ago, and wanted to thank you (and Al) for your tipping me on altoist Willie Smith (I need not to judge most musicians work with their playing in JATP live sessions), I feel like that he was almost always ON and should have been featured more, he had a lot to say, and it is good that Harry James realized this, and gave him ample room to say what he had to say. I do feel that Eddie Thompkins (his true name was not Tompkins) could play excellent jazz at times ("Mood Indigo" 1934, nice cup or felt hat solo), and I forgot that he played the trumpet before the clarinets on RAT (just good though, sounds like he had less inspiration there). Oliver has a nice sound, but plays on the best, as he does on the Mezzrow session from 1937 (I would have used Thompkins if I was to choose a Lunceford trumpet). Of course Trummy Young and Ted Buckner were good soloists added in 1937, and the less said about the
 screeches the better IMHO (though it does make a colorful contrast to the baritone sax/trombone section, and that is a plus when used sparingly), and BTW isn't Joe Thomas the root of R&B tenor (check "Nagasaki" on the 1936 Vitaphone)?
   Finally, Stan Getz's "Hersey Bar" is based on a similar melodic motif as "Running A Temperature"? I love early 50's Getz's  ("Sweetie Pie" being another)

all the best
Yves Francois


^with some great Willie Smith that gets cut off twice before he can say all of what he wants to say

*really no excuse for a band with Dicky Wells, Frankie Newton, Shad Collins, Cecil Scott, Russell Procope, Bill Dillard (and on the last session for Bluebird) Dizzy Gillespie and Bob Carroll, with talent like that, they should have been better than what over half of them were, almost any band would be jealous for any 3 of them for soloists.


+(and I happen to like that record BYW, even with my quizzed look I have when hearing it, the last 20 seconds when the band goes into gear , Russell Bowles has about 2 bars, then the ensemble riffs, only ... to go to Dan Grissom trying for a note higher than Paul Webster's trumpet on other records)


--- On Sun, 1/25/09, Julian Vein <julianvein at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> From: Julian Vein <julianvein at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] What the &@#$ is going on? ^
> To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 7:11 AM

> Sorry Yves, I don't hear much merit in this
> performance. It sounds very 
> much a general purpose effort. The tune's not much and
> do I detect some 
> out-of-tunedness in the ensemble after the vocal? The only
> bit that 
> caught my attention was the Hal Kemp-like clarinet ensemble
> before the 
> vocal. And it doesn't swing!
> 
>       Julian Vein
> 

> yves francois wrote:
> >    ...just listen to "Running a Temperature"
> Jimmie Lunceford 1936 (vox/arr: Sy Oliver), and it will take
> care of the rest. I happen to love that record, probably the
> first album I bought in Chicago when I was 12 had that song
> as the first track on side one (an old Decca album "For
> Dancers' Only" still have it, after all these
> years), and I really like Earl Carruthers baritone sax on
> that one (and Oliver's plunger trumpet is rather like
> his work on the Mezzrow session from 1937)
> > and a good morning to the music world
> > Yves Francois