[78-L] Gay?

[David Weiner]

I'm not insinuating anything Bruce - check Wikipedia for a comprehensive use
of the word through history, including a reference to the Astaire-Rogers
film.  Noel Coward's song "Green Carnations" from BITTERSWEET has an early
"mainstream" use of the word in its latter-day meaning:

"Pretty boys, witty boys,
You may sneer
At our disintegration.
Haughty boys, naughty boys,
Dear, dear, dear!
Swooning with affectation...
And as we are the reason
For the "Nineties" being gay,
We all wear a green carnation."

Dave W.


-----Original Message-----
From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
[mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] On Behalf Of
bruce78rpm at comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:58 PM
To: 78-L Mail List
Subject: Re: [78-L] Gay?

I object to this insinuation about the history of the use of the word. Look
at this clip: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-xfaiAftJI There is no way on earth that
Ginger was a lesbian, and the story line has nothing to do with gay people,
and if that word was prominently used to refer to Homosexuals & Lesbians as
Gays in 1934, then the play and the movie never would have taken on that
Title. wouldn't you agree? 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Weiner" <djwein at earthlink.net> 
To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com> 
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:04:41 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: Re: [78-L] Gay? 

As someone who's gay AND homosexual, I don't know how you can say the word 
was "stolen" - it's been used in its "current" meaning for over a century in

some circles - in the last half-century it has moved to the mainstream in 
that meaning. Aren't there hundreds of words out there with more than one 
meaning? (Like "blue" the color and "blue" the feeling?) And "homophobic" is

not a fear of men in toto- it's a fear of gay men! 

Dave W. 

DAVID BURNHAM wrote: 
> Earl wrote: 
> 
> (I'm not using 
> "gay"--I'm gay, but not homosexual--an example of a word being stolen) 
> 
> In the old 78 recording of "My Old Kentucky Home", I'm sure Foster wasn't 
implying that in summer the African-Americans are homosexual. (I always try 
to include a reference to a 78 in any posting.) 
> 
> But talking about stolen words, doesn't "homophobic" really mean a fear of

men? I'm really asking because I don't know - if it doesn't, what does? 
> 
> db 
> _______________________________________________ 
Actually, it was I who wrote that. What I'm objecting to the modern 
pilfering of the English language to supply euphemisms for certain 
practices that are frowned upon by some. Conversely, if I describe 
myself as "straight", that doesn't mean I'm not a homosexual, but that 
I'm honest. 

Have you noticed that people who live normal lives are often described 
in negative terms, e.g. non-drinker, non-believer, non-smoker, 
non-driver etc? 

Julian Vein 

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