[78-L] Race observations

[Chris Zwarg]

At 07:04 23.01.2009, you wrote:
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "DAVID BURNHAM" <burnhamd at rogers.com>
>>In the generation before ours, (Steven's 
>> and mine), the n-word seemed to be acceptable even in polite company. It 
>> occurs twice in the 1936 recording of "Mikado", famously in "Showboat", 
>> many times in the Shilkret album of Stephen Foster and, of course, in 
>> countless "coon song" records. To my knowledge, in none of these cases is 
>> the term used derogatorily, in fact in some cases it's used 
>> affectionately. 

At face value it is derogatory in "Mikado", but Gilbert put it there in a farcical vein, as part of Ko-Ko's "little list" of despicable individuals he'd like to see executed. A few moments later it is revealed in the story that despite this mighty rant - BTW set to the most tip-toeing and non-ranting music imaginable - he couldn't even kill a bluebottle. The ominous list contains among others the author himself ("the judicial humorist" - Gilbert had been a lawyer before he turned to writing operettas), and traditionally, in the last verse, any current celebrity the singer and producer find a way to fit into the metre.

I didn't dare to say this yesterday, but now I'll chime in that I always found both the Foster and "coon" songs I heard on old records endearing rather than condescending. I have no problem imagining the "heroes" of many of these songs as likeable real persons I could get along with splendidly - precisely the last thing a racist (as I understand that word) would want.

All the songs you quote are so far removed from being racist agitprop that the cuts or bowdlerizations common today to remove the "offensive" word(s) - or in case of Foster the suppression of the whole genre from the current repertoire except maybe as instrumental pieces - strike me as showing a lack of respect for the integrity of these works of art. To not use a word today in conversation - as I learned the hard way here very recently - is one thing, to "correct" long-dead authors something very different, and endorsing one does not make the other more palatable. It's like deciding that, with our today's listening expectations, the lack of "blue" notes and jazz phrasing in Beethoven's 9th is a defect and should be "remedied" to "improve" the work.

Chris Zwarg


>You might say that because I'm not Afro-American myself, 
>> that I have no right to express an opinion on how offensive this might be 
>> and I would offer no argument to that observation. I can never experience 
>> the life of a black in a  white community but I have found myself amongst 
>> entirely black groups of friends and had them calling me names that are 
>> the counter-parts of the n-word in that community but we were fooling 
>> around and no offense on either part was intended or felt.
>>
>> I can foresee the day when the term "gay" is going to be unacceptable.
>>
>> I know there are many Jewish posters on this list and while the word "Jew" 
>> is probably how they would refer to themselves, I'm sure they've all heard 
>> that word used in an offensive context. Sometimes I believe there is too 
>> much emphasis put on a word and too little on the genuine feelings between 
>> groups in society. A couple of decades ago, the term "frog" was introduced 
>> as an derogatory term for Quebecers but instead of being offended by it, 
>> they ran with it, introducing terms such as "frog power" and it lost it's 
>> impact. Back in the late 50s and early 60s the term "dummie" was 
>> considered politically incorrect, (although that description wasn't in use 
>> yet), but today the term has been cleared, probably because the term can 
>> no longer be used to refer to someone who is mute so it now only has one 
>> meaning, (political correctness for dummies). You still often see plumbing 
>> connections which are called "Siamese connections", okay perhaps because 
>> there
>> is no longer a country by that name. Are we still using the term "Dutch 
>> treat" or "going Dutch"? That word itself is offensive to some 
>> Nederlanders while others say that's what they are. I don't know what 
>> "Indian giver" has been replaced by.
>> Anyway, that's my $.02 worth!
>>
>Point being that the unacceptability of "N****r" in my post...and in my 
>growing up...
>was strictly a PERSONAL experience!! This was NOT standard among those
>of my age demographic...it was just the way *I* was told to behave...!!
>
>Sadly, the human race is divided into easily identifiable groups...almost 
>ALL of
>whom cordially hate one another!
>
>...stevenc 
>
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