[78-L] Goodbye (from Michael), re: racist remarks (one person's opinions et all)

[yves francois]

Michael (and everyone left on 78L):

I was offended as well (I hope you do not mind me writing this to you as well as 78L, my apologies if you do), see my quote from last night:

source from e mail
Re: [78-L] Pathetic (re: Doug's letter to us) Yves' 2 cents lets get back on topic, PLEASE!!
Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:34 PM


   " ... just my two cents, and , no, I do not think the n* is appropriate (and would like to see an apology*), but I also think talking about contemporary events AND non musical and/or non 78 oriented matters should be done in a separate list..."
below on an asterisk I also mention that my father was enslaved, but really, it should just be a matter of humanity.

    One further note, if Chris' attitude for using that word is tolerated maybe I should also quit, but I have seen on his last posting an apology, my problem is more than just the word itself, but the INTENT behind the word, as Tom so well put in a recent e mail. I would also like to call on the childish playground antics of immediately considering someone as a Nazi for making such a statement equally disturbing (not what Michael did there BTW, and I am also not offended by some teasing on a light semi humorous statement, but there is on certain liberal circles the feeling that if you are not with us you are against us mentality I find equally disturbing^), 2 wrongs do not make a right. Also, Michael is correct on the INTENT in the usage of a racial slur (see Michel's quote here)

"Yes, I too feel that political correctness has gone overboard, yet the intention is what is important. Zwarg intentionally demeaned another person BECAUSE (my emphasis, YFFS)  of their race. How would he like it if he was called a Nazi? Actually, I'm afraid of his answer
With good wishes,  Michael"


BTW this is different from a supposition of the comment he made after , IMHO what he said was not calling the man a Nazi, just saying what would he feel if a gentleman was called that, something that I consider within the boundaries of judgment (calling Mr Zwarg one , on the other hand, would be of course a totally different matter and one that would be as distasteful as his remark)

Yves Francois 


PS: i have read Chris' remark re the history of the word, and do understand that the word has changed its nuance over the years. HOWEVER in the English language it is quite simply inappropriate for anyone not of the Afro American* culture to use that term, when I was younger I would have gone in a tirade about this, and still feel an apology would be appropriate (for the usage of the word, I do NOT wish to change his political point of view, that would make me a totalitarian and I am offended as well by those who right away call him that, I am simply calling in the inappropriate behavior of using a racial prerogative term). To put it in another way, and BTW going back to the "Jazz Singer" when Jolson did a blackface routine it would NOT be considered condescending because of the context of the times (there is film footage of the Ray Ventura band in black face in 1947, and it was meant as a homage, not disparagingly. In 2009, it would not be, this is
 because both language and what a symbol means to a society evolves,and BTW it cannot stay static, because people's minds do not stay static and the USAGE of a particular word or image evolves from the way society uses that term or image.

  My final comments (LOL) on the matter are below:

 Chris does have a point here re the term  Afro American, I would be, in technical terms, like many Bores from South Africa, an Afro American (I should say African American, it can probably be told that I am not exactly perfect in the English language, but then you really do not want to see my French LOL!!!) ,because my mother's family were French/Italians (and other ethnicity's as well) who grew up in Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco, but this would not hold water in 21st century Etas Unis ...

 ^maybe my libertarian leanings sometimes shows up (but this is NOT 78POLIT) ... and maybe some liberals do not realize how much they sound like Bush (and by the way Bush was spending money, he certainly looked like a tax and spend liberal, didn't he, even if he spent it on different issues), funny that Mr Zwarg and I may agree that we cannot spend our way out of this recession, I believe the war and the banking/financial sector's deregulation (and lack of transparency in economic issues) caused much of this mess

PPS:   and finally (yes!!!)  I would like to see some of the people who have left this list and people who are tired of this to try to influence the list back to 78's, jazz, dance bands, opera, pre 1960 world music, folk musics, field recordings, classical and speeches made on 78's and from that era, this is an incredible resource




--- On Thu, 1/22/09, michael <turntable78 at mac.com> wrote:

> From: michael <turntable78 at mac.com>
> Subject: [78-L] Goodbye
> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> Date: Thursday, January 22, 2009, 2:32 AM
> Though I have never participated actively in the list, I do
> read it  
> often and I am also no longer continuing. Yes, people do
> get off  
> topic and that certainly doesn't bother me. What does
> bother me is  
> that Mr. Zwarg referred to another human using an ugly
> racial slur  
> and that is not acceptable. Of all the responses I read, no
> one  
> commented specifically on the ugliness of his language. (Or
> if so, I  
> missed it). He should immediately be jettisoned from the
> list and  
> since there has not been any objection raised to his
> obscenity, I no  
> longer wish to be a part of a group that in any way would
> tacitly  
> condone such a remark and allow him to continue to express
> his  
> opinions. Yes, I too feel that political correctness has
> gone  
> overboard, yet the intention is what is important. Zwarg  
> intentionally demeaned another person because of their
> race. How  
> would he like it if he was called a Nazi? Actually, I'm
> afraid of his  
> answer.
> 		With good wishes,  Michael
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