[78-L] Dates on AFRS transcriptions

[David Lennick]

joe at salerno.com wrote:
> Looking at my log. It looks like a combination of performances. Oberon 
> Overture, Mahler #1 from Oct.21. Paganini Rhapsody & Onegin POlonaise 
> from Oct 28.
> 
> So another question - why bother? Why not just present the music as it 
> was broadcast originally, since there was no intent to avoid repetition 
> of the SVR Paganini? At least it answers my question about avoiding 
> redundancy of the repertoire between AFRS & V-disc - there was no effort 
> to do so.
> 
> joe salerno

For starters, the AFRS Philharmonic broadcasts were an hour, not 90 minutes or 
two hours..they'd have chopped wherever they could. Only the first two 
movements of the Mahler were included, plus the Overture, Polonaise and 
Rhapsody. Maybe they figured an AFRS audience would object less to getting half 
a Mahler Symphony than half a Tchaikovsky.

The Ellington programs are just as chopped up, with items inserted from earlier 
broadcasts or some later ones, sometimes unannounced..there are times when you 
hear three different announcers in the same program.

dl
> 
> 
> David Lennick wrote:
>> I've sent Joe the specifics off list, but the AFRS set is New York Philharmonic 
>> Program #59, and the date on the discs is October *21* 1945, not October 28. So 
>> which is it, I wonder? V-Disc Book says October 28th.
>>
>> dl
>>
>> joe at salerno.com wrote:
>>> This ads more mystery to the thing. What AFRS set is it that contains 
>>> the Kapell/Rodzinski?
>>>
>>> C'mon, you knew I was going to ask, for discographical purposes at least...
>>>
>>> joe salerno
>>>
>>>
>>> David Lennick wrote:
>>>> That's odd, because I HAVE the Kapell-Rodzinski Rhapsody on AFRS (and on 
>>>> V-Disc)..they must have split the concert. I think there was half a Mahler 
>>>> Symphony on the same set of discs. I sent Richard Rodzinski a copy, since he 
>>>> didn't have this program.
>>>>
>>>> dl
>>>>
>>>> joe at salerno.com wrote:
>>>>> Don't know about popular, but in the case of classical AFRS ET dates are 
>>>>> MOSTLY correct, as far as I know. I've documented one instance in which 
>>>>> they substituted material without a note on the date.
>>>>>
>>>>> This instance was the Oct 28, 1945 performance of the Paganini Rhapsody 
>>>>> with Kapell/Rodzinski/NYPS. This performance was issued on V-Discs. On 
>>>>> the AFRS release of the same concert, the orchestral selections are 
>>>>> there, but Kapell is nowhere to be found. For his portion they 
>>>>> substituted the Strauss Burlesque with Arrau from a few weeks before. 
>>>>> That additional date is not given in the run out, like anyone cared, nor 
>>>>> does the announcer mention the fact that there was a different conductor 
>>>>> for the Strauss on that other date, whose name I am not thinking of at 
>>>>> the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have wondered if the AFRS & V-Disc producers cooperated in such 
>>>>> matters to avoid redundancy in sending material to the troops, or if 
>>>>> this was the decision of some conscientious program planner, or an 
>>>>> accident. I've never encountered this any other instance, or known of 
>>>>> some incident to check on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone else on the list know of such an occurence?
>>>>>
>>>>> joe salerno
>>>>>
>>>>> David Lennick wrote:
>>>>>> When an AFRS transcription shows a date in the land, which other sources 
>>>>>> confirm to be the original broadcast date, is it safe to assume that this may 
>>>>>> have nothing to do with the actual date of cutting or dubbing? I've been 
>>>>>> transferring several "Date with the Duke" programs, some of which show dates 
>>>>>> and others showing "dubbed" (meaning pieced together from leftovers), but in a 
>>>>>> couple of cases with dates, there are songs inserted which the band didn't play 
>>>>>> till a couple of months later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Related question: Did the AFRS producers have a bet to see how many times they 
>>>>>> could insert the execrable Kay Davis massacring "Yesterdays"? I swear I've 
>>>>>> heard it six times so far. What was the deal with her anyway..did she come out 
>>>>>> naked?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> dl
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