[78-L] Matrix numbers [Victor, anyway]

[P G C]

Ok these ones are big, a little more than 12", less than 14", but single sided.

I assume they are form before 1906...
 JorgeF




________________________________
From: Chris Zwarg <doctordisc at truesoundtransfers.de>
To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 2:13:26 PM
Subject: Re: [78-L] Matrix numbers [Victor, anyway]

At 21:05 07.12.2008, you wrote:
>D=8", E=14"?  I'd have thought just the opposite, as the 14 inch
>records were produced in 1903 and 1904 and the 8 inch records didn't
>appear until 1906.

And you are right!

Chris Zwarg


>On 12/7/08, Michael Biel <mbiel at mbiel.com> wrote:
>> P G C wrote:
>>> I have here some pre 1910 red seal discs. they have the catalog number and
>>> the matrix? pressed on the shellac.
>>> But I also can see a samall crown symbol besides the caltalog numbrer,
>>> since they are single sided an "angel" like logo graved (trade Mark).
>>>
>>> One label (paper) reads "Gramahone Monarch Record" (Milano) "535 1/2 c"
>>> with catalog 063068, other has "Victrola" as the brand, (Titta Ruffo,
>>> singing) "1329 c" (not hand written) Catalog 92042 crown in the disc or
>>> 90024 (s) in the label
>>>
>>> Are thise made for/in europe?
>>>  JorgeF
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The crown and the angel trademark on the reverse of Victors show that
>> the master was imported.  The Victor pressings were made for the U.S.
>> market from those imported masters.  Over on the popular side, when the
>> single-sided records were coupled onto double sided records in the 16000
>> series, the other number  you see is the original single-sided catalog
>> number.  In the early single sided records the second number you see,
>> usually handscribed, is the matrix number.  In acoustical Victors, the
>> prefixes on matrix numbers were size indicators.  A=7-inches, B=10,
>> C=12, D=8, E=14.  On imported matrix numbers, the suffix is an
>> identifier of the recording engineer/producer because each of them kept
>> their own serial numbering system which duplicated the numbers used by
>> all the others.  So those suffix letterings are vital to identify the
>> recording because the numbers are relatively meaningless without the
>> suffix.
>>
>> Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Chris Zwarg <doctordisc at truesoundtransfers.de>
>>> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 2:42:03 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Matrix numbers [Victor, anyway]
>>>
>>> At 03:40 07.12.2008, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mike Harkin" <harkinmike at yahoo.com>
>>>>
>>>>> Classical Victors from the various branches of HMV do have those mxx on
>>>>> the
>>>>> wax.  Don't remember if they have Victor's mxx also, either in the wax
>>>>> or
>>>>> printed on the label....
>>>>> FWIW
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Sides obtained from the various "overseas" HMV branches DO show their
>>>> matrix number...which was on the European stampers sent to (RCA) Victor!
>>>> In the "wax," though...not on the label. And, AFAIK, they were NOT given
>>>> US matrix numbers as controls!
>>>>
>>>
>>> After ca. 1928, Victor matrices as control nrs. do appear at least in the
>>> ledgers for imported recordings. They rarely bothered to remove the
>>> original HMV matrix nr. however, and as the Victor "equivalent" doesn't
>>> show in the matrix anyway, no much difference from the
>>> customer's/collector's viewpoint. HMV recordings on Victor *without* the
>>> HMV mx. showing are usually US-made dubs; if acoustic, they will show the
>>> typical S/8 mark denoting a Victor dub.
>>>
>>>
>>>> However, SOME (not ALL) Red Seals DO show their matrix numbers on the
>>>> labels...in parentheses under the catalog numbers. I've never figured out
>>>>
>>>> how/
>>>> why this practice took place...!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nothing to do with Red Seal AFAIK, but a short-lived practice for all
>>> current series sometime around 1928 (which was of course the time when
>>> large parts of RS repertoire were remade electrically, so it might be most
>>> commonly seen on this type of record).
>>>
>>> Chris Zwarg
>>>
>>>
>>
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