[78-L] Victor single-sided double-sided record

[Sean Miller]

OK first...

The "Rainbow" pressing I speak of is just like a typical double sided
"Patents" pressing, type face, label type and thinner shellac just as you
say.  Just like the Turner disc you found.  A mystery indeed.

Well, I left in a sudden rush yesterday mostly because I had been up for
over eight hours without eating any more than a granola (not grafonola) bar
and a coffee.  A fellow collector there wanted to go grab lunch and I wanted
to leave, so off to the "Pompton Queen" diner for a great lunch before
hitting 287 north to 87 north on home.  Had I known, I wouldn't have rushed
after all, the Thruway was backed up from 287 for 20 miles to Harriman.  I
sat in traffic for nearly two hours, as long as it should have taken me to
get back to Albany!

Perhaps my springs were overwound, I did pick up two phonos I had bought
prior to the show.  One of which is a nice HMV orthophonic type machine that
I spent today cleaning up and just now played an HMV of "Half Caste Woman"
by Noel Coward I picked up there for a buck.  Prices on machines have
certainly dropped in a few areas, there were two nice Victor Schoolhouse
machines for $2500, about $500 less than I paid for mine five years ago (and
at the time, THAT was a deal!).  Some other machines still had high asking
prices, but the only machine I actually saw sell was a table model Victor IX
(inside horn) in oak and in very nice shape for $190.  There were other
nicely priced machines there that hadn't sold as of 1PM-ish when I left and
several vendors there I spoke with said sales were way off.  Didn't see much
traffic at Kurt Nauck's table with his books.  Most of the record guys were
selling stuff, but the crowds were much smaller than usual.  I did pick up
the Archeophone CD of "Debate '08" which I listened to while in gridlock on
87, the transfers are fantastic as usual and I highly recommend it.  Seemed
most buyers yesterday were more browsers than anything, including me,
although I did find a really clean Eddie Morton two minute cylinder for $10
that should have been long gone by the time I saw it!  I usually spend $500
at the Wayne show every time.  This time I spend just over $100.  Sign of
the times, I guess, but I won't get political about it all!  

Sean



-----Original Message-----
From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
[mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] On Behalf Of Michael Biel
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 5:03 PM
To: 78-L Mail List
Subject: Re: [78-L] Victor single-sided double-sided record

Thanks for the note about "Rainbow".  It's one of my all time favorite
Murray records, but I think my long-time copy of it was a cylinder.  But
I did pick up the Victor of it just a couple of months ago, and I think
it is a single sided grand prize.  There's one other thing which I
didn't mention.  It is a thinner pressing than most single-sided
Victors, very much more like the double-sided pressings of later years. 
Somewhere I have a precision thickness measuring device and this is one
aspect of pressing history that is usually overlooked a an indicator of
pressing date.  

> Mike, I saw you and Leah just as I was leaving the show yesterday, sorry I
> didn't tap you on the shoulder and say "hi", but I needed to get out of
there!

Sean, what happened?  Panic attack?  Shellac overload?  Advanced
horniness from all those phonograph horns?  Needle phobia?  His master's
Claustrophobia?  Price sticker shock? Your spring was overwound? 
Lam-crack attack?  Victor Orthopedic Syndrome? Gruve Guard?  Vinylitis? 
I know I suffered from all these things in this and other huge shows. 
Where to start?  Have I missed something in the tables I didn't get to
before they packed up?  Do I REALLY need this record?  How can I even
think of spending this money when the stock market is tanking? Paper,
plastic, or shellac? What I don't buy won't hurt me.  I've run screaming
out of there too!

Mike (do I buy groceries or records?) Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com  



-------- Original Message --------

From: "Sean Miller" <smille1 at nycap.rr.com>


Well, I can vouch for those existing single sided discs with double
sided
issue #s in the wax as well, I've had a few pass through my hands over
the
years and all of them 10 inch "patent" label type issues like you found.
It
couldn't have gone on for long, considering how few I've seen and even
fewer
that you've seen! 

The one I have (and just looked at again) is Billy Murray's "Rainbow"
with
the Haydn Quartet. Bolig says it was recorded in Sept 1908 and issued on
Victor 5571 (I have a few grand prize pressings of it too) and doubled
as
Victor 17233 in 1913. That would make my late single sided pressing 1913
(!) at least, no? This is weird. I originally thought these may have
been
pressed in advance of doubles to have stock on hand for sale before the
switch to double faced discs, but this one is five years later!

You've got me wondering now, too!

Mike, I saw you and Leah just as I was leaving the show yesterday, sorry
I
didn't tap you on the shoulder and say "hi", but I needed to get out of
there!

Sean


-----Original Message-----
From:  Michael Biel

Another record I picked up at the music show is an E+++ copy of
single-sided Victor 4567 by Alan Turner. Regular black First Prize
label, 5 lines,Aug 25, 1908 final patent with 60 cent price around the
spindle hole and no rear sticker. That number is up at the 12 o'clock
position as it should be, BUT down at the 6 o'clock position is the
doubled number, 16407B!!! Were they still pressing single sided records
AFTER they had already started doubling them???? Anybody else got
something like this or is it unusual? Stamper indicator MM is up at the
single side number, it is handwritten take 2, and the remnants of the
handwritten matrix number is there at 6 o'clock, but obliterated by the
doubled number.

Mike Biel mbiel at mbiel.com

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