[78-L] 78-L Digest, Vol 161, Issue 5

Dennis Flannigan dennis.flannigan at gmail.com.invalid
Tue Mar 1 22:31:56 PST 2022


Well, I agree or disagree with much of what's been posted. Mostly because
it saves reading, researching, and then lying exhausted on the desktop.

d

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 7:24 PM <78-l-request at klickitat.78online.com> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re:  First real LP (Mark Bardenwerper)
>    2. Re:  First real LP (BURNHAM)
>    3. Re:  First real LP (dlennick dlennick)
>    4.  Fwd: Re: Re:  First real LP (dlennick dlennick)
>    5. Re:  Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP (RODMANLEWIS)
>    6. Re:  Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP (Michael Biel)
>    7. Re:  Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP (dlennick dlennick)
>    8. Re:  Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP (Hotmail)
>    9. Re:  Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP (BURNHAM)
>   10. Re:  Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP (dlennick dlennick)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 15:57:53 -0600
> From: Mark Bardenwerper <citrogsa at charter.net.invalid>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID: <d6414c90-2b95-50b7-7d26-7fecac537db7 at charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> There is the media, as is being discussed here, but on the other end of
> sales is the consumer. What sort of equipment was being offered to play
> them on? I am surmising that the entry of long playing records was
> delayed by the war, as was the phonographs to enjoy them on.
>
> Then we also have the birth of high fidelity. Surely it was available to
> premium audiences first and the media style to suit that audience.
>
> It would be great to see and read some of the early advertising. Was
> radio behind it first or was it intended for personal use?
>
> Another avenue, when was hi-fi opened to other audiences, such as jazz,
> popular music?
>
> --
> Mark L. Bardenwerper, Sr.
> Technology...responsibly, thoughtfully
> http://www.citrogsa.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 17:26:46 -0500
> From: BURNHAM <burnhamd at rogers.com.invalid>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID: <5273B3B9-583E-4717-B0E8-536D8D8AD874 at rogers.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I remember seeing a radio from the ?30s, (I think it may have been a
> Stromberg-Carlson), which was identified as ?High-Fidelity?; it contained
> multiple speakers, (two tweeters and a woofer), and separate bass and
> treble tone controls!  I saw this unit in the very early ?50s, 1952 or 1953
> and was blown away by the sound!  I'd love to find one of these models
> today!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 28, 2022, at 17:04, Mark Bardenwerper
> <citrogsa at charter.net.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> >
> > There is the media, as is being discussed here, but on the other end of
> > sales is the consumer. What sort of equipment was being offered to play
> > them on? I am surmising that the entry of long playing records was
> > delayed by the war, as was the phonographs to enjoy them on.
> >
> > Then we also have the birth of high fidelity. Surely it was available to
> > premium audiences first and the media style to suit that audience.
> >
> > It would be great to see and read some of the early advertising. Was
> > radio behind it first or was it intended for personal use?
> >
> > Another avenue, when was hi-fi opened to other audiences, such as jazz,
> > popular music?
> >
> > --
> > Mark L. Bardenwerper, Sr.
> > Technology...responsibly, thoughtfully
> > http://www.citrogsa.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 78-L mailing list
> > 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
> > http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 17:27:41 -0500 (EST)
> From: dlennick dlennick <dlennick at sympatico.ca.invalid>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Cc: 78-l at 78online.com
> Message-ID: <7e117d4a.75ff.17f42724eb3.Webtop.28 at sympatico.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no
>
> L-7001 for the Stokowski (Beethoven's 5th), 1931. Many of those Program
> Transcriptions were direct cut but as you say, weren't microgroove.
>
> And apparently Tempo was out with 33RPM microgroove discs a couple of
> weeks before Columbia. But in 1948, nobody was making new recordings, to
> tape or anything else, till late November when the AFM ban ended.
>
> dl
>
>
>     ------ Original Message ------
>     From: burnhamd at rogers.com.invalid
>     To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> Cc: 78-l at 78online.com
>     Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 3:03 PM
>     Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
>
>
>   I guess the question also has to ask, ?What is an Lp??  An Lp, (upper
> case ?L? and lower case ?p?), was a Columbia trade mark so the first Lp
> had to be from Columbia. My custom is to refer to ?Lp?s when I?m
> discussing Columbia products and ?LP?s when referring to anybody else?s.
> That?s not by any authority, it?s just my habit!  It has also been
> pointed out that the ?p? isn?t lower case, it?s just on a lower base
> line, so that the bottom of the loop of the ?p? aligns with the
> horizontal line of the ?L?. Somebody from Columbia would have to confirm
> that thought, because I have no idea. But are we discussing the first LP
> mastered from tape, or the first one cut at 33 1/3 during a live
> performance, (direct to disc)?  In the latter case, I think the Oscar
> would have to go to one of the RCA transcription discs from the early
> 30s by Leopold Stokowski. I don?t have the energy to go to my basement
> at the moment to find the title but I know I have at least one that was
> cut directly without going through a 78 rpm stage. I never considered
> that series as the earliest LPs, because in MY opinion, (and that?s all
> it is), in order to qualify as an LP, the micro groove stylus is just as
> important as the speed!  By the same token, coming in the back door, I
> don?t consider modern 78s, cut with a micro groove stylus as really
> being 78s; but you?re right; if they aren?t 78s, what are they?
>
>   I?ve done a lot of opining here and everybody?s welcome to disagree!
>
>   db
>
>   Sent from my iPhone
>
>   > On Feb 28, 2022, at 13:32, Michael Biel <mbiel at mbiel.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>   >
>   > ?
>   > One other thing to remember about "first Lp" issues is the matrix
> numbers, rather than Catalog numbers. I've never seen a listing of the
> records in matrix number order, but the lowest issue numbers were not
> the lowest matrix numbers. All the ones I've seen are at least three
> digits. The 10 inch Lp and 12-inch XLp numbers are intermixed in one
> series.
>   > Michael Biel.
>   >
>   > Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>   > ________________________________
>   > From: Michael Biel <mbiel at mbiel.com>
>   > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 1:24:03 PM
>   > To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>; 78-l at 78online.com
> <78-l at 78online.com>
>   > Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
>   >
>   > South Pacific was also released simultaneously on Lp and 78. The
> recording session used tape as an experimental backup, but the tape was
> never used until a CD in the 1980s. It was quickly pulled when there was
> outrage that Carefully Taught was incomplete. The replacement used the
> disc masters, but I am not sure if they used the original discs or an
> old tape transfer.
>   > Michael Biel.
>   >
>   > Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>   > ________________________________
>   > From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
> <78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com> on behalf of dlennick dlennick
>   > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 1:11:56 PM
>   > To: 78-l at 78online.com <78-l at 78online.com>
>   > Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
>   >
>   >
>   > To clarify, I Can Hear It Now WAS mastered on tape. Joel Tall was
>   > credited with the editing in the 78 liner notes.
>   >
>   >
>   >    ------ Original Message ------
>   >    From: dlennick at sympatico.ca.invalid
>   >    To: 78-l at 78online.com
>   >    Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 10:59 AM
>   >    Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
>   >
>   >
>   >  Not sure if I'm getting thjrough to the list this morning. Test
> 1-2-3.
>   >
>   >  And "I Can Hear It Now" went direct to 78 and LP in 1948.
>   >
>   >  Milhaud's "Le Boeuf Sur le Toit" was in the can for aboiut 4 years
>   > till
>   >  issued on 78 and lp in 1949.
>   >
>   >  dl
>   >
>   >
>   >      ------ Original Message ------
>   >      From: saag at telia.com.invalid
>   >      To: 78-l at 78online.com
>   >      Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 10:10 AM
>   >      Subject: [78-L] First real LP
>   >
>   >
>   >    According to Howard Scott at Columbia Records Bruno Walter's
>   > recording
>   >    of Mendelssohn's  "Concerto In E Minor For Violin And Orchestra
> Op.
>   >  64"
>   >    (Columbia ML 4001) was the first 12'' LP ever released, and Frank
>   >    Sinatra's "The Voice Of Frank Sinatra" (Columbia CL 6001) the
> first
>   >    10''. Both featured reissues of recordings previously released on
>   >  78's.
>   >    At the time of release (1st of July 1948) Columbia had about a
>   > hundred
>   >    different titles ready for release, so being "the first" albums
>   > these
>   >    two obviously were first only due to their numbering.
>   >
>   >    But what was the first LP release of "original" material,
> produced
>   > for
>   >    LP, and previously not released on 78?
>   >    The topic was discussed here in 2004, without conclusion:
>   >
>   >    Steve Abrams wrote about US Columbia:
>   >
>   >    "I am not aware of any recordings mastered from tape in 1948.
> There
>   >  may
>   >    have been some experiments with tape in '48 but tape was not
>   >    introduced until the spring of 1949, for back-ups."
>   >
>   >    And David Lennick wrote:
>   >
>   >    "I believe that all of US Columbia's first lps were mastered
> direct
>   > to
>   >    disc from
>   >    the original 16" lacquers, which contained the original 4-minute
>   > takes
>   >    recorded
>   >    for 78 issue."
>   >
>   >    Perhaps it wasn't Columbia at all who first released an "original
>   >    recording" on LP?
>   >
>   >    Kristjan
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >    ---
>   >    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
> software.
>   >    https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>   >    _______________________________________________
>   >    78-L mailing list
>   >    78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>   >    http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >  _______________________________________________
>   >  78-L mailing list
>   >  78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>   >  http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > 78-L mailing list
>   > 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>   > http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > 78-L mailing list
>   > 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>   > http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   78-L mailing list
>   78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>   http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 17:32:36 -0500 (EST)
> From: dlennick dlennick <dlennick at sympatico.ca.invalid>
> Subject: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re:  First real LP
> To: 78-L at 78online.com
> Message-ID: <64d5796e.761b.17f4276ce27.Webtop.28 at sympatico.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no
>
> L-7001 for the Stokowski (Beethoven's 5th), 1931. Many of those Program
> Transcriptions were direct cut but as you say, weren't microgroove.
>
>   And apparently Tempo was out with 33RPM microgroove discs a couple of
> weeks before Columbia. But in 1948, nobody was making new recordings, to
> tape or anything else, till late November when the AFM ban ended.
>
>   dl
>
>
>      ------ Original Message ------
>      From: burnhamd at rogers.com.invalid
>      To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
>   Cc: 78-l at 78online.com
>      Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 3:03 PM
>      Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
>
>
>    I guess the question also has to ask, ?What is an Lp??  An Lp, (upper
> case ?L? and lower case ?p?), was a Columbia trade mark so the first Lp
> had to be from Columbia. My custom is to refer to ?Lp?s when I?m
> discussing Columbia products and ?LP?s when referring to anybody else?s.
> That?s not by any authority, it?s just my habit!  It has also been
> pointed out that the ?p? isn?t lower case, it?s just on a lower base
> line, so that the bottom of the loop of the ?p? aligns with the
> horizontal line of the ?L?. Somebody from Columbia would have to confirm
> that thought, because I have no idea. But are we discussing the first LP
> mastered from tape, or the first one cut at 33 1/3 during a live
> performance, (direct to disc)?  In the latter case, I think the Oscar
> would have to go to one of the RCA transcription discs from the early
> 30s by Leopold Stokowski. I don?t have the energy to go to my basement
> at the moment to find the title but I know I have at least one that was
> cut directly without going through a 78 rpm stage. I never considered
> that series as the earliest LPs, because in MY opinion, (and that?s all
> it is), in order to qualify as an LP, the micro groove stylus is just as
> important as the speed!  By the same token, coming in the back door, I
> don?t consider modern 78s, cut with a micro groove stylus as really
> being 78s; but you?re right; if they aren?t 78s, what are they?
>
>    I?ve done a lot of opining here and everybody?s welcome to disagree!
>
>    db
>
>    Sent from my iPhone
>
>    > On Feb 28, 2022, at 13:32, Michael Biel <mbiel at mbiel.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>    >
>    > ?
>    > One other thing to remember about "first Lp" issues is the matrix
> numbers, rather than Catalog numbers. I've never seen a listing of the
> records in matrix number order, but the lowest issue numbers were not
> the lowest matrix numbers. All the ones I've seen are at least three
> digits. The 10 inch Lp and 12-inch XLp numbers are intermixed in one
> series.
>    > Michael Biel.
>    >
>    > Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>    > ________________________________
>    > From: Michael Biel <mbiel at mbiel.com>
>    > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 1:24:03 PM
>    > To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>; 78-l at 78online.com
> <78-l at 78online.com>
>    > Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
>    >
>    > South Pacific was also released simultaneously on Lp and 78. The
> recording session used tape as an experimental backup, but the tape was
> never used until a CD in the 1980s. It was quickly pulled when there was
> outrage that Carefully Taught was incomplete. The replacement used the
> disc masters, but I am not sure if they used the original discs or an
> old tape transfer.
>    > Michael Biel.
>    >
>    > Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>    > ________________________________
>    > From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
> <78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com> on behalf of dlennick dlennick
>    > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 1:11:56 PM
>    > To: 78-l at 78online.com <78-l at 78online.com>
>    > Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
>    >
>    >
>    > To clarify, I Can Hear It Now WAS mastered on tape. Joel Tall was
>    > credited with the editing in the 78 liner notes.
>    >
>    >
>    >    ------ Original Message ------
>    >    From: dlennick at sympatico.ca.invalid
>    >    To: 78-l at 78online.com
>    >    Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 10:59 AM
>    >    Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
>    >
>    >
>    >  Not sure if I'm getting thjrough to the list this morning. Test
> 1-2-3.
>    >
>    >  And "I Can Hear It Now" went direct to 78 and LP in 1948.
>    >
>    >  Milhaud's "Le Boeuf Sur le Toit" was in the can for aboiut 4 years
>    > till
>    >  issued on 78 and lp in 1949.
>    >
>    >  dl
>    >
>    >
>    >      ------ Original Message ------
>    >      From: saag at telia.com.invalid
>    >      To: 78-l at 78online.com
>    >      Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 10:10 AM
>    >      Subject: [78-L] First real LP
>    >
>    >
>    >    According to Howard Scott at Columbia Records Bruno Walter's
>    > recording
>    >    of Mendelssohn's  "Concerto In E Minor For Violin And Orchestra
> Op.
>    >  64"
>    >    (Columbia ML 4001) was the first 12'' LP ever released, and
> Frank
>    >    Sinatra's "The Voice Of Frank Sinatra" (Columbia CL 6001) the
> first
>    >    10''. Both featured reissues of recordings previously released
> on
>    >  78's.
>    >    At the time of release (1st of July 1948) Columbia had about a
>    > hundred
>    >    different titles ready for release, so being "the first" albums
>    > these
>    >    two obviously were first only due to their numbering.
>    >
>    >    But what was the first LP release of "original" material,
> produced
>    > for
>    >    LP, and previously not released on 78?
>    >    The topic was discussed here in 2004, without conclusion:
>    >
>    >    Steve Abrams wrote about US Columbia:
>    >
>    >    "I am not aware of any recordings mastered from tape in 1948.
> There
>    >  may
>    >    have been some experiments with tape in '48 but tape was not
>    >    introduced until the spring of 1949, for back-ups."
>    >
>    >    And David Lennick wrote:
>    >
>    >    "I believe that all of US Columbia's first lps were mastered
> direct
>    > to
>    >    disc from
>    >    the original 16" lacquers, which contained the original 4-minute
>    > takes
>    >    recorded
>    >    for 78 issue."
>    >
>    >    Perhaps it wasn't Columbia at all who first released an
> "original
>    >    recording" on LP?
>    >
>    >    Kristjan
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >    ---
>    >    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
> software.
>    >    https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>    >    _______________________________________________
>    >    78-L mailing list
>    >    78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>    >    http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >  _______________________________________________
>    >  78-L mailing list
>    >  78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>    >  http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    > _______________________________________________
>    > 78-L mailing list
>    > 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>    > http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>    > _______________________________________________
>    > 78-L mailing list
>    > 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>    > http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>
>    _______________________________________________
>    78-L mailing list
>    78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>    http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 23:36:22 +0000
> From: RODMANLEWIS <julianvein at gmail.com.invalid>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAHp1gHDWUbCAtG9k9dwTbKJ7XLTiSyUTiOJyezJ3wY+cS9nO_A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> >
> > I don't consider 78s dubbed from 16" acetates or whatever genuine 78s.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 00:18:34 +0000
> From: Michael Biel <mbiel at mbiel.com.invalid>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CH2PR04MB706382FCC319BD8F702EBB90B5029 at CH2PR04MB7063.namprd04.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Well then, with that requirement, there were practically no 78s issued
> after 1942.  Almost EVERY record was mastered on 16-inch lacquers after the
> resumption of recording after the AFM strike.
> Michael Biel.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> ________________________________
> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com <
> 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com> on behalf of RODMANLEWIS
> <julianvein at gmail.com.invalid>
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 6:36:22 PM
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
>
>
> >
> > I don't consider 78s dubbed from 16" acetates or whatever genuine 78s.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> 78-L mailing list
> 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
> http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 19:29:40 -0500 (EST)
> From: dlennick dlennick <dlennick at sympatico.ca.invalid>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
> To: 78-L at 78online.com
> Message-ID: <3ff28fa7.78a9.17f42e1fa2c.Webtop.28 at sympatico.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no
>
> As I said (in a message which may or may not show up). Columbia began
> recording on 16" late in 1939.
>
> dl
>
>
>     ------ Original Message ------
>     From: mbiel at mbiel.com.invalid
>     To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
>     Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 7:18 PM
>     Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
>
>
>   Well then, with that requirement, there were practically no 78s issued
> after 1942.  Almost EVERY record was mastered on 16-inch lacquers after
> the resumption of recording after the AFM strike.
>   Michael Biel.
>
>   Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>   ________________________________
>   From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
> <78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com> on behalf of RODMANLEWIS
> <julianvein at gmail.com.invalid>
>   Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 6:36:22 PM
>   To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>   Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
>
>
>   >
>   > I don't consider 78s dubbed from 16" acetates or whatever genuine
> 78s.
>   >
>   _______________________________________________
>   78-L mailing list
>   78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>   http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>   _______________________________________________
>   78-L mailing list
>   78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>   http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 17:07:51 -0800
> From: Hotmail <soundthink at live.com.invalid>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID:
>         <
> PH7PR14MB5400915D5BCB532B57174F21B0029 at PH7PR14MB5400.namprd14.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> How do you know this? There were hundreds of shoestring budget record
> companies that sprang up after WWII. Did they all use this technology?
>
> Cary
>
> > On Feb 28, 2022, at 4:37 PM, dlennick dlennick
> <dlennick at sympatico.ca.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > As I said (in a message which may or may not show up). Columbia began
> > recording on 16" late in 1939.
> >
> > dl
> >
> >
> >    ------ Original Message ------
> >    From: mbiel at mbiel.com.invalid
> >    To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> >    Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 7:18 PM
> >    Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
> >
> >
> >  Well then, with that requirement, there were practically no 78s issued
> > after 1942.  Almost EVERY record was mastered on 16-inch lacquers after
> > the resumption of recording after the AFM strike.
> >  Michael Biel.
> >
> >  Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> >  ________________________________
> >  From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
> > <78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com> on behalf of RODMANLEWIS
> > <julianvein at gmail.com.invalid>
> >  Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 6:36:22 PM
> >  To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> >  Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I don't consider 78s dubbed from 16" acetates or whatever genuine
> > 78s.
> >>
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  78-L mailing list
> >  78-L at klickitat.78online.com
> >  http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  78-L mailing list
> >  78-L at klickitat.78online.com
> >  http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 78-L mailing list
> > 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
> > http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 20:53:42 -0500
> From: BURNHAM <burnhamd at rogers.com.invalid>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID: <2A9A309F-6D31-4965-A34D-27AC94928842 at rogers.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> To Cary
>
> I think the main development that enabled all the ?shoestring? companies
> after WW II was the introduction of the Webcor tape recorder which allowed
> anyone with a couple of hundred dollar bills to spare become a recording
> engineer able to make half decent low budget recordings!  This was the
> first time the technology was within the grasp of the home hobbyists.
> Depending on the quality of the microphone and the group being recorded,
> one could make recordings whose quality rivaled the best commercial records
> of the day!
>
> db
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 28, 2022, at 20:08, Hotmail <soundthink at live.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > How do you know this? There were hundreds of shoestring budget record
> companies that sprang up after WWII. Did they all use this technology?
> >
> > Cary
> >
> >> On Feb 28, 2022, at 4:37 PM, dlennick dlennick
> <dlennick at sympatico.ca.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >> ?
> >> As I said (in a message which may or may not show up). Columbia began
> >> recording on 16" late in 1939.
> >>
> >> dl
> >>
> >>
> >>   ------ Original Message ------
> >>   From: mbiel at mbiel.com.invalid
> >>   To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> >>   Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 7:18 PM
> >>   Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
> >>
> >>
> >> Well then, with that requirement, there were practically no 78s issued
> >> after 1942.  Almost EVERY record was mastered on 16-inch lacquers after
> >> the resumption of recording after the AFM strike.
> >> Michael Biel.
> >>
> >> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
> >> <78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com> on behalf of RODMANLEWIS
> >> <julianvein at gmail.com.invalid>
> >> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 6:36:22 PM
> >> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I don't consider 78s dubbed from 16" acetates or whatever genuine
> >> 78s.
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 78-L mailing list
> >> 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
> >> http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 78-L mailing list
> >> 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
> >> http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 78-L mailing list
> >> 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
> >> http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
> > _______________________________________________
> > 78-L mailing list
> > 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
> > http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 22:19:22 -0500 (EST)
> From: dlennick dlennick <dlennick at sympatico.ca.invalid>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
> To: 78-L at 78online.com
> Message-ID: <5b16cab3.7aa2.17f437d58a3.Webtop.28 at sympatico.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no
>
> I thunk it's safe to say that most of the Indies after 1945 were
> mastering on 16" (Mercury, Cosmo, Signature, MGM, Musicraft, Majestic)
> given that the LP reissues or even some of the pre-1950 transfers to
> other 78 labels were dubs that didn't sound like lifts from other 78s.
>
> I had a 50s pressing of Alfred Newman's "Street Scene" (Mercury) that's
> from an original lacquer with cue scratch leading up to the first note.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> dl
>
>
>     ------ Original Message ------
>     From: burnhamd at rogers.com.invalid
>     To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
>     Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 8:53 PM
>     Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
>
>
>   To Cary
>
>   I think the main development that enabled all the ?shoestring?
> companies after WW II was the introduction of the Webcor tape recorder
> which allowed anyone with a couple of hundred dollar bills to spare
> become a recording engineer able to make half decent low budget
> recordings!  This was the first time the technology was within the grasp
> of the home hobbyists. Depending on the quality of the microphone and
> the group being recorded, one could make recordings whose quality
> rivaled the best commercial records of the day!
>
>   db
>
>   Sent from my iPhone
>
>   > On Feb 28, 2022, at 20:08, Hotmail <soundthink at live.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>   >
>   > ?
>   > How do you know this? There were hundreds of shoestring budget
> record companies that sprang up after WWII. Did they all use this
> technology?
>   >
>   > Cary
>   >
>   >> On Feb 28, 2022, at 4:37 PM, dlennick dlennick  wrote:
>   >>
>   >> ?
>   >> As I said (in a message which may or may not show up). Columbia
> began
>   >> recording on 16" late in 1939.
>   >>
>   >> dl
>   >>
>   >>
>   >>   ------ Original Message ------
>   >>   From: mbiel at mbiel.com.invalid
>   >>   To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
>   >>   Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 7:18 PM
>   >>   Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
>   >>
>   >>
>   >> Well then, with that requirement, there were practically no 78s
> issued
>   >> after 1942.  Almost EVERY record was mastered on 16-inch lacquers
> after
>   >> the resumption of recording after the AFM strike.
>   >> Michael Biel.
>   >>
>   >> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>   >> ________________________________
>   >> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
>   >> <78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com> on behalf of RODMANLEWIS
>   >> <julianvein at gmail.com.invalid>
>   >> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 6:36:22 PM
>   >> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>   >> Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
>   >>
>   >>
>   >>>
>   >>> I don't consider 78s dubbed from 16" acetates or whatever genuine
>   >> 78s.
>   >>>
>   >> _______________________________________________
>   >> 78-L mailing list
>   >> 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>   >> http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>   >> _______________________________________________
>   >> 78-L mailing list
>   >> 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>   >> http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>   >>
>   >>
>   >>
>   >>
>   >> _______________________________________________
>   >> 78-L mailing list
>   >> 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>   >> http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > 78-L mailing list
>   > 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>   > http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   78-L mailing list
>   78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>   http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> 78-L mailing list
> 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
> http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>
>
> End of 78-L Digest, Vol 161, Issue 5
> ************************************
>


-- 
*Flannigan&Friends*
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