[78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP

dlennick dlennick dlennick at sympatico.ca.invalid
Mon Feb 28 14:32:36 PST 2022


L-7001 for the Stokowski (Beethoven's 5th), 1931. Many of those Program 
Transcriptions were direct cut but as you say, weren't microgroove.

  And apparently Tempo was out with 33RPM microgroove discs a couple of 
weeks before Columbia. But in 1948, nobody was making new recordings, to 
tape or anything else, till late November when the AFM ban ended.

  dl


     ------ Original Message ------
     From: burnhamd at rogers.com.invalid
     To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
  Cc: 78-l at 78online.com
     Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 3:03 PM
     Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP


   I guess the question also has to ask, “What is an Lp?”  An Lp, (upper 
case “L” and lower case “p”), was a Columbia trade mark so the first Lp 
had to be from Columbia. My custom is to refer to “Lp”s when I’m 
discussing Columbia products and “LP”s when referring to anybody else’s. 
That’s not by any authority, it’s just my habit!  It has also been 
pointed out that the “p” isn’t lower case, it’s just on a lower base 
line, so that the bottom of the loop of the “p” aligns with the 
horizontal line of the “L”. Somebody from Columbia would have to confirm 
that thought, because I have no idea. But are we discussing the first LP 
mastered from tape, or the first one cut at 33 1/3 during a live 
performance, (direct to disc)?  In the latter case, I think the Oscar 
would have to go to one of the RCA transcription discs from the early 
30s by Leopold Stokowski. I don’t have the energy to go to my basement 
at the moment to find the title but I know I have at least one that was 
cut directly without going through a 78 rpm stage. I never considered 
that series as the earliest LPs, because in MY opinion, (and that’s all 
it is), in order to qualify as an LP, the micro groove stylus is just as 
important as the speed!  By the same token, coming in the back door, I 
don’t consider modern 78s, cut with a micro groove stylus as really 
being 78s; but you’re right; if they aren’t 78s, what are they?

   I’ve done a lot of opining here and everybody’s welcome to disagree!

   db

   Sent from my iPhone

   > On Feb 28, 2022, at 13:32, Michael Biel <mbiel at mbiel.com.invalid> 
wrote:
   >
   > 
   > One other thing to remember about "first Lp" issues is the matrix 
numbers, rather than Catalog numbers. I've never seen a listing of the 
records in matrix number order, but the lowest issue numbers were not 
the lowest matrix numbers. All the ones I've seen are at least three 
digits. The 10 inch Lp and 12-inch XLp numbers are intermixed in one 
series.
   > Michael Biel.
   >
   > Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
   > ________________________________
   > From: Michael Biel <mbiel at mbiel.com>
   > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 1:24:03 PM
   > To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>; 78-l at 78online.com 
<78-l at 78online.com>
   > Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
   >
   > South Pacific was also released simultaneously on Lp and 78. The 
recording session used tape as an experimental backup, but the tape was 
never used until a CD in the 1980s. It was quickly pulled when there was 
outrage that Carefully Taught was incomplete. The replacement used the 
disc masters, but I am not sure if they used the original discs or an 
old tape transfer.
   > Michael Biel.
   >
   > Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
   > ________________________________
   > From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com 
<78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com> on behalf of dlennick dlennick
   > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 1:11:56 PM
   > To: 78-l at 78online.com <78-l at 78online.com>
   > Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
   >
   >
   > To clarify, I Can Hear It Now WAS mastered on tape. Joel Tall was
   > credited with the editing in the 78 liner notes.
   >
   >
   >    ------ Original Message ------
   >    From: dlennick at sympatico.ca.invalid
   >    To: 78-l at 78online.com
   >    Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 10:59 AM
   >    Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
   >
   >
   >  Not sure if I'm getting thjrough to the list this morning. Test 
1-2-3.
   >
   >  And "I Can Hear It Now" went direct to 78 and LP in 1948.
   >
   >  Milhaud's "Le Boeuf Sur le Toit" was in the can for aboiut 4 years
   > till
   >  issued on 78 and lp in 1949.
   >
   >  dl
   >
   >
   >      ------ Original Message ------
   >      From: saag at telia.com.invalid
   >      To: 78-l at 78online.com
   >      Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 10:10 AM
   >      Subject: [78-L] First real LP
   >
   >
   >    According to Howard Scott at Columbia Records Bruno Walter's
   > recording
   >    of Mendelssohn's  "Concerto In E Minor For Violin And Orchestra 
Op.
   >  64"
   >    (Columbia ML 4001) was the first 12'' LP ever released, and 
Frank
   >    Sinatra's "The Voice Of Frank Sinatra" (Columbia CL 6001) the 
first
   >    10''. Both featured reissues of recordings previously released 
on
   >  78's.
   >    At the time of release (1st of July 1948) Columbia had about a
   > hundred
   >    different titles ready for release, so being "the first" albums
   > these
   >    two obviously were first only due to their numbering.
   >
   >    But what was the first LP release of "original" material, 
produced
   > for
   >    LP, and previously not released on 78?
   >    The topic was discussed here in 2004, without conclusion:
   >
   >    Steve Abrams wrote about US Columbia:
   >
   >    "I am not aware of any recordings mastered from tape in 1948. 
There
   >  may
   >    have been some experiments with tape in '48 but tape was not
   >    introduced until the spring of 1949, for back-ups."
   >
   >    And David Lennick wrote:
   >
   >    "I believe that all of US Columbia's first lps were mastered 
direct
   > to
   >    disc from
   >    the original 16" lacquers, which contained the original 4-minute
   > takes
   >    recorded
   >    for 78 issue."
   >
   >    Perhaps it wasn't Columbia at all who first released an 
"original
   >    recording" on LP?
   >
   >    Kristjan
   >
   >
   >
   >    ---
   >    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus 
software.
   >    https://www.avast.com/antivirus
   >    _______________________________________________
   >    78-L mailing list
   >    78-L at klickitat.78online.com
   >    http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >  _______________________________________________
   >  78-L mailing list
   >  78-L at klickitat.78online.com
   >  http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   > 78-L mailing list
   > 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
   > http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
   > _______________________________________________
   > 78-L mailing list
   > 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
   > http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l

   _______________________________________________
   78-L mailing list
   78-L at klickitat.78online.com
   http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l










More information about the 78-L mailing list