[78-L] Fwd: Re: Re: First real LP
dlennick dlennick
dlennick at sympatico.ca.invalid
Mon Feb 28 14:32:36 PST 2022
L-7001 for the Stokowski (Beethoven's 5th), 1931. Many of those Program
Transcriptions were direct cut but as you say, weren't microgroove.
And apparently Tempo was out with 33RPM microgroove discs a couple of
weeks before Columbia. But in 1948, nobody was making new recordings, to
tape or anything else, till late November when the AFM ban ended.
dl
------ Original Message ------
From: burnhamd at rogers.com.invalid
To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
Cc: 78-l at 78online.com
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
I guess the question also has to ask, “What is an Lp?” An Lp, (upper
case “L” and lower case “p”), was a Columbia trade mark so the first Lp
had to be from Columbia. My custom is to refer to “Lp”s when I’m
discussing Columbia products and “LP”s when referring to anybody else’s.
That’s not by any authority, it’s just my habit! It has also been
pointed out that the “p” isn’t lower case, it’s just on a lower base
line, so that the bottom of the loop of the “p” aligns with the
horizontal line of the “L”. Somebody from Columbia would have to confirm
that thought, because I have no idea. But are we discussing the first LP
mastered from tape, or the first one cut at 33 1/3 during a live
performance, (direct to disc)? In the latter case, I think the Oscar
would have to go to one of the RCA transcription discs from the early
30s by Leopold Stokowski. I don’t have the energy to go to my basement
at the moment to find the title but I know I have at least one that was
cut directly without going through a 78 rpm stage. I never considered
that series as the earliest LPs, because in MY opinion, (and that’s all
it is), in order to qualify as an LP, the micro groove stylus is just as
important as the speed! By the same token, coming in the back door, I
don’t consider modern 78s, cut with a micro groove stylus as really
being 78s; but you’re right; if they aren’t 78s, what are they?
I’ve done a lot of opining here and everybody’s welcome to disagree!
db
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 28, 2022, at 13:32, Michael Biel <mbiel at mbiel.com.invalid>
wrote:
>
>
> One other thing to remember about "first Lp" issues is the matrix
numbers, rather than Catalog numbers. I've never seen a listing of the
records in matrix number order, but the lowest issue numbers were not
the lowest matrix numbers. All the ones I've seen are at least three
digits. The 10 inch Lp and 12-inch XLp numbers are intermixed in one
series.
> Michael Biel.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> ________________________________
> From: Michael Biel <mbiel at mbiel.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 1:24:03 PM
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>; 78-l at 78online.com
<78-l at 78online.com>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
>
> South Pacific was also released simultaneously on Lp and 78. The
recording session used tape as an experimental backup, but the tape was
never used until a CD in the 1980s. It was quickly pulled when there was
outrage that Carefully Taught was incomplete. The replacement used the
disc masters, but I am not sure if they used the original discs or an
old tape transfer.
> Michael Biel.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> ________________________________
> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
<78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com> on behalf of dlennick dlennick
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 1:11:56 PM
> To: 78-l at 78online.com <78-l at 78online.com>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
>
>
> To clarify, I Can Hear It Now WAS mastered on tape. Joel Tall was
> credited with the editing in the 78 liner notes.
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: dlennick at sympatico.ca.invalid
> To: 78-l at 78online.com
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 10:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [78-L] First real LP
>
>
> Not sure if I'm getting thjrough to the list this morning. Test
1-2-3.
>
> And "I Can Hear It Now" went direct to 78 and LP in 1948.
>
> Milhaud's "Le Boeuf Sur le Toit" was in the can for aboiut 4 years
> till
> issued on 78 and lp in 1949.
>
> dl
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: saag at telia.com.invalid
> To: 78-l at 78online.com
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 10:10 AM
> Subject: [78-L] First real LP
>
>
> According to Howard Scott at Columbia Records Bruno Walter's
> recording
> of Mendelssohn's "Concerto In E Minor For Violin And Orchestra
Op.
> 64"
> (Columbia ML 4001) was the first 12'' LP ever released, and
Frank
> Sinatra's "The Voice Of Frank Sinatra" (Columbia CL 6001) the
first
> 10''. Both featured reissues of recordings previously released
on
> 78's.
> At the time of release (1st of July 1948) Columbia had about a
> hundred
> different titles ready for release, so being "the first" albums
> these
> two obviously were first only due to their numbering.
>
> But what was the first LP release of "original" material,
produced
> for
> LP, and previously not released on 78?
> The topic was discussed here in 2004, without conclusion:
>
> Steve Abrams wrote about US Columbia:
>
> "I am not aware of any recordings mastered from tape in 1948.
There
> may
> have been some experiments with tape in '48 but tape was not
> introduced until the spring of 1949, for back-ups."
>
> And David Lennick wrote:
>
> "I believe that all of US Columbia's first lps were mastered
direct
> to
> disc from
> the original 16" lacquers, which contained the original 4-minute
> takes
> recorded
> for 78 issue."
>
> Perhaps it wasn't Columbia at all who first released an
"original
> recording" on LP?
>
> Kristjan
>
>
>
> ---
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