[78-L] Groove spacing - groove width

Sun Nov 20 09:08:13 PST 2016

LOL!
Ron Roscoe

-----Original Message-----
From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com [mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] On Behalf Of David Lennick
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2016 12:07 PM
To: 78-L Mail List
Subject: Re: [78-L] Groove spacing - groove width

Chewed, probably.
dl

On 11/20/2016 12:04 PM, jim brannen wrote:
> Never thought of that since I have always played them on modern equipment. Now it makes me wonder what they sounded like on players of that time.
>
>      On Sunday, November 20, 2016 11:50 AM, David Lennick <dlennick at sympatico.ca.invalid> wrote:
>   
>
>   
> That was the case..the recordings were too good for the playback 
> systems in use at the time. Wide range recording lived on in 
> transcription libraries like Associated (Muzak).
>
> dl
>
>
> On 11/20/2016 11:41 AM, jim brannen wrote:
>> Over the years, I have found some American Victors 78s recorded in 
>> 1932 that Ă‚ have a very full sound range compared to Victors made 
>> before and even for years after. Does anyone know if Victor was 
>> trying to produce a fuller frequency range, but then abandon it for 
>> some reason. Perhaps cost? Jimmy B
>>
>> Â  Â  Â  On Sunday, November 20, 2016 11:04 AM, Ron <roscoer at verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>> Â
>>
>> Â
>> Hello;
>> I can't agree with Kristjan's choice of "a large table for different 
>> record companies".Ă‚Â  I only see a few record companies listed, it's 
>> mostly by country; and there were literally hundreds of 78 recording equalizations.
>> However, this link www.esotericsound.com/Electronics/REQ2MAN.pdf 
>> gives you access to the most comprehensive listing of recording 
>> curves for both 78 and
>> 33 rpm discs.Ă‚Â  There are FIVE pages of playback curve equalizations.
>> Incidentally, this chart shows that RCA didn't begin to change its 
>> turnover frequency upwards until around 1935-38 [the chart shows RIAA 
>> turnover for those years, and RIAA turnover is 500 Hz.Ă‚Â  [The table 
>> is found starting on page 6 of this Operating Manual.]
>>
>> Ron Roscoe
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
>> [mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] On Behalf Of Kristjan 
>> Saag
>> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 7:02 PM
>> To: 78-L Mail List
>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Groove spacing - groove width
>>
>>
>> Thanks, all, for interesting information. Seems the switch to 
>> electric recording had little effect on groove width.
>>
>> As for playback EQ curves, here is a link to a website that deals a 
>> lot with this, including a large table for different record companies.
>> http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/78rpm_playback_curves#Table_of_EQ_C
>> urves
>>
>> I'm sure some of you have seen it; I may even have gotten the link 
>> from this list.
>> As for reliability of its content I have no clue.
>> Kristjan
>>
>> On 2016-11-19 22:58, Royal Pemberton wrote:
>>> Those very first Stokowski Victors have bass going down to roughly
>>> 70-80 Hz due to his using string basses on the recordings. They 
>>> didn't do that on later recordings most likely because they didn't 
>>> work out they'd recorded at all, as whatever they auditioned test 
>>> pressing on cut off at more like 200 Hz. I wonder what people 
>>> thought the first time they heard one of those first Stokowski 
>>> acoustics years later on Orthophonic acoustic or electric 
>>> machines.... On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at
>>> 9:35 PM, Ron L'Herault <lherault at verizon.net.invalid
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I suspect that since acoustics didn't have much bass, whatever 
>>>> improvement that came via Orthophonic playback was considered 
>>>> phenomenal. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: Ron 
>>>> [mailto:roscoer at verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 
>>>> 10:18 AM To: '78-L Mail List' Cc: MOCAPS-L at yahoogroups.com Subject: RE:
>>>> [78-L] Groove spacing - groove width Weren't the first Vitaphone 
>>>> movie discs issued in 1926? I believe the first Vitaphone movies 
>>>> were shorts, but that in 1926 "Don Juan" was a silent film issued 
>>>> with a Vitaphone sound track comprised only of music and sound 
>>>> effects, no dialogue. Also, if some sort of low frequency 
>>>> attenuation wasn't used, then the amplitudes of low frequencies 
>>>> would have required their attenuation to keep the groove spacing 
>>>> down. I believe that they saw their options in 1925 as either 1. attenuate the bass or 2.
>>>> provide a constantly wide groove that would have accommodated the 
>>>> lowest frequency on the new Orthophonic records [50 Hz]. The 
>>>> constant wide groove would have required a 12" diameter disc to 
>>>> hold what was previously held on a 10" acoustic disc. So the 
>>>> attenuation won out. I personally have been very amazed that no 
>>>> corresponding bass boost on playback was ever provided in the 
>>>> earliest electrical playback equipment such as the Victrola 10-51 
>>>> electrically amplified record changer. 
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