[78-L] Fwd: Fwd: [ARSCLIST] Columbia tape adoption

[David Lennick]

I don't think the original tape was used for the first CD South Pacific, which 
is the one with the missing high notes in Carefully Taught, and which has the 
later cover, but it WAS used (and referred to) in the CD I bought with a "Nice 
Price" sticker and the original green cover. That's the one that is full of 
distortion and sounds off speed.

Columbia was notorious for splicing parts of takes together and not caring 
about pitch changes, which were frequent (Dinu Lipatti's Chopin, a Casadesus 
disc, many others). But I hear far worse examples of tape speeds varying on 70s 
reissues, like the Odyssey "Medium/Telephone" and RCA's mid 70s Broadway 
reissues like Call Me Madam.

dl

On 8/2/2014 12:01 PM, Royal Pemberton wrote:
>
> It's astounding that session tape recordings in a major label's studio
> could be that screwed up given the equipment involved such as the Ampex 300
> tape machines.  But would some of those troubles be from dodgy or poorly
> made tape stock?  (Of course it's not the last time they'd have speed
> issues with a wayward Ampex 300....KIND OF BLUE, anyone?)
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Dave Burnham<burnhamd at rogers.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Maybe someone who is on ARSC can forward this. I have once again been
>> removed from the ARSC list.
>>
>> db
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Dave Burnham<burnhamd at rogers.com>
>>> Date: August 2, 2014 at 11:42:42 AM EDT
>>> To: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List<
>> ARSCLIST at LISTSERV.LOC.GOV>
>>> Subject: Fwd: [78-L] Fwd: [ARSCLIST] Columbia tape adoption
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>>> From: David Lennick<dlennick at sympatico.ca.invalid>
>>>> Date: August 2, 2014 at 11:36:06 AM EDT
>>>> To: 78-L Mail List<78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Fwd: [ARSCLIST] Columbia tape adoption
>>>> Reply-To: 78-L Mail List<78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My understanding is that the first Ampex recorders went to the Crosby
>> show and
>>>> to Apollo Records (article about Mullin in Billboard, decades ago). The
>> first
>>>> time Columbia used tape has long been acknowledged as "I Can Hear It
>> Now" in
>>>> 1948 and the tape editor was Joel Tall, whose name appears in the 78
>> edition
>>>> but not on the lp. (He also put his name on the edit block.) South
>> Pacific was
>>>> backed up on tape but that tape was not used until a CD issue, which
>> sounded
>>>> bloody awful. Speed flux, distortion, and that edit in "Carefully
>> Taught" (if
>>>> it appears in this issue, there were a number of them on CD). The 45
>> issue was
>>>> dubbed direct from the lacquers..you can hear a clunk before the music
>> on
>>>> several sides! And that was well after the lp had been out.
>>>>
>>>> dl
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/2/2014 11:25 AM, Dave Burnham wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm forwarding this to 78L so dl will see it. He has some knowledge
>> about this recording.
>>>>>
>>>>> db
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Dennis Rooney<dennisdrooney at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>>> Date: August 1, 2014 at 11:03:45 AM EDT
>>>>>> To: ARSCLIST at LISTSERV.LOC.GOV
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Columbia tape adoption
>>>>>> Reply-To: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List<
>> ARSCLIST at LISTSERV.LOC.GOV>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's possible tape was rolled at the sessions. The tapes used for the
>> first
>>>>>> CD issue were copies from lacquer masters made for Lp mastering. If
>> there
>>>>>> were original tape parts, they would have been filed under the matrix
>>>>>> number and wound on 10.5in reels (until late 1951, all recording was
>> made
>>>>>> in segments corresponding to 78rpm discs. It was because the
>> contracts were
>>>>>> written in those terms. Victor did the same thing (the "Tinker Toy"
>>>>>> masters) at the time. At the time of the first CD issue, the original
>> tape
>>>>>> parts were not readily searchable in the Sony archives. Without
>> access to
>>>>>> original documents or the first CD issue, I am stating an educated
>> guess,
>>>>>> so if there is contrary information in the booklet I will stand
>> corrected;
>>>>>> otherwise, my scenario seems the most plausible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DDR
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Stewart Gooderman<DrSFG at att.net>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wasn't the Original Cast Recording of South Pacific recorded both on
>>>>>>> acetates and magnetic tape in April 1949, the tape version being
>> used for
>>>>>>> the 1st CD release?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DrG
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 31, 2014, at 10:13 AM, Dennis Rooney<dennisdrooney at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is true that Columbia began master recording on 17.5 and 16"
>> lacquer
>>>>>>>> discs commencing in 1939. The last Masterworks sessions recorded at
>> 78rpm
>>>>>>>> were in 1940.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whoever claims that Columbia began mastering on magnetic tape "by
>>>>>>> mid-1947"
>>>>>>>> is completely incorrect. There are no seasons for which tape parts
>> exist
>>>>>>>> prior to late 1949, and backup discs continued to be cut until
>> 1951. My
>>>>>>>> assertion is based on extensive personal exploration of surviving
>>>>>>> Columbia
>>>>>>>> masters and parts. Tape originals did not enter into Lp production
>> until
>>>>>>>> late 1949. The lp and xlp matrices for Lps were second or third
>>>>>>> generation
>>>>>>>> copies from disc originals.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> DDR
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Carl Pultz<cpultz at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The question of Columbia Records' adoption of new technologies
>> came up
>>>>>>> here
>>>>>>>>> recently. By coincidence, I came across a memoir of the
>> development of
>>>>>>> LP
>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>> Edward Wallerstein. According to this, the company had started
>>>>>>> recording to
>>>>>>>>> 33rpm 16" vinyl discs in the late 30s, which later helped them to
>> create
>>>>>>>>> quiet masters for LP. But, additionally, they were early into tape:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Columbia also had an advantage in that we were the first people
>> in the
>>>>>>>>> U.S.
>>>>>>>>> to use tape for master recording. [Adrian] Murphy was one of the
>> first
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> see a German Magnetophon tape recorder in newly liberated Luxemburg
>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> the war. He quickly packed it up and shipped it back to CBS. Not
>> long
>>>>>>>>> thereafter both EMI and Ampex came out with machines, and we
>> immediately
>>>>>>>>> placed an order for both. By mid-1947, we were using them and had
>>>>>>>>> discontinued direct disc cutting. The Ampex proved to be the better
>>>>>>>>> machine,
>>>>>>>>> so we sent the EMI machines back. Of the originally issued LPs
>> about 40%
>>>>>>>>> were from tape originals."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Interesting essay, though how reliable I'm not sure. (For
>> instance, how
>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>> mag tape was available in mid-47? I think Mullin was still hording
>>>>>>> scraps
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> BASF at that time.) It has probably appeared elsewhere, but I
>> found it
>>>>>>>>> here:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.musicinthemail.com/audiohistoryLP.html via
>>>>>>>>> http://wallyheider.com/wordpress/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Carl Pultz
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alembic Productions
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> 1006 Langer Way
>>>>>>>> Delray Beach, FL 33483
>>>>>>>> 212.874.9626
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 1006 Langer Way
>>>>>> Delray Beach, FL 33483
>>>>>> 212.874.9626