[78-L] The guy who cleans his 78s with spit.

[Nick Norwood]

Got to say that I know Greg Butler, or more accurately I know his
collection.

Whatever it is to clean/keep them in good audio condition... It works.  I
don't know if that's saliva or not.


N.


On 23 June 2014 09:03, Michael Biel <mbiel at mbiel.com.invalid> wrote:

>
> Over the years we have had lots of long and heated discussions of how to
> clean your records.  It was the most difficult subject we have.  As I
> have mentioned, a lot of record collecting discussion has moved over to
> Facebook, and a mixture of old hands and newbies have blended uneasily.
> Well, the cleaning discussion finally hit, and hit hard.  Two threads on
> "78 rpm records & cylinders fan group" opened up at the same time.  Once
> concerned STEAM CLEANING 78s!!!!  The other concerned mold and mold
> spores on acetates.  We explained that the steam would be great if you
> wanted to make a vase out of your record, and that there was no mold or
> mold spores on the lacquer disc, it was Palmetic acid.  Then came the
> suggestions to use WD40 to clean records.  Ammonia to clean 78s.  But
> finally, when we thought we had heard every possible method came word
> from a guy who feels that the Doctor's Miracle Record Cleaner is too
> hard on records but that he uses SPIT to clean his.  A thousand records
> a month he cleans with spit.  Then he rinses them with distilled water.
> Then after they are dry he plays them backwards and forward and
> backwards and forwards to clean out all the debris in the grooves.
>
> Here is his part of the discussion with my answers and a few other
> comments.
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Greg Butler--- saliva is excellent
>
> Greg Butler--- yes a very worn clean cloth and a bit of spit rub in the
> direction
> of the grooves - never be tempted to use anything that includes solvents
>
> and I include "disc doctor"!
>
> Greg Butler--- clean off with distilled water and dry again with another
> old worn clean dry cloth
>
> Greg Butler--- amazingly shellac is very tough so some people us a
> scrubbing brush - the grey powder at the bottom of grooves is usually
> not shellac but steel needle residue that has been worn down by the
> record...
>
> Michael Biel--- Another reason why NOT to continue to play records with
> acoustical players and steel needles. You can't help what was done 70
> years ago but you can stop now. Plus, the Brits loved to use fibre and
> thorns which created a nice juicy gunk in the grooves. There are now
> some fully scientific studies being made on all sorts of cleaning
> methods, and if I had brought these two threads of comments to the
> recent ARSC conference where this was discussed, they would still be
> laughing.
>
> Doug Benson--- HI Greg Butler! Do you really spit on your records? Do
> you have any idea what all is present in human saliva?? And while I'm
> asking questions, have you ever actually tried Disc Doctor?
>
> [He never did answer that question -- his only cleaning fluid is spit
> with a water rinse]
>
> Greg Butler---  after cleaning, it is good to run the discs backwards
> and forwards and backwards and forwards a couple of times using a
> sacrificial stylus to clear remaining debris out of the grooves - we can
> do this quite easily with the numark decks we use for our radio shows.
>
> Michael Biel--- If the record is properly cleaned (e.g. not using spit),
> shoveling remaining debris out of the groove is unnecessary because the
> cleaning got all the debris. That there is debris shows the record was
> improperly cleaned.
>
> Greg Butler--- saliva is very mild it has natural enzymes designed to
> loosen debris from your teeth and is certainly less aggresive than any
> sort of solvent - it does of course need to be washed off afterwards
> with clean water - but very often - it is the only form of cleaner
> available! Mechanical removal is the most effective - but again great
> care is required and I always simply recommend a lint free cleaning
> cloth and/or fine brush - the record should be dry before playing
> backwards and forwards - but it certainly does help. The best method of
> dirt removal is highly dependent upon what the dirt actually is - and
> sometime you may have no choice to use something more aggresive - but as
> Michael Biel and others point out - as much care as possible is required
> to avoid anything that will actually damage the shellac! Not every case
> is the same - but without knowing the actual chemical makeup of the
> contaminant caution is required.
>
>
> Michael Biel--- Saliva is a dreadfully bad and inefficient cleaner of
> eyeglasses. If you can't even get your glasses clean with spit, it will
> be far worse cleaning records. Cleaning cloths are useless getting dirt
> out of grooves. ONLY a brush will do it. Even back in the 1920s it was
> recommended to use a brush. Every cleaning method uses a brush to get
> into the groove. Properly designed brushes are sized and shaped to fit
> the groove. If the record is cleaned properly there will be no residue
> to be removed by the needle. That you have much shows that you are not
> cleaning correctly.
>
>
> Greg Butler--- There would be something very wrong if you had the sort
> of dirt I often find on 78s on your eyeglasses! I think you are starting
> to be a bit ridiculous Michael I buy over 1000 records every month and
> some of them need more than a brush I can assure you!
>
> Michael Biel--- If saliva cannot get the small amount of dirt off of
> eyeglasses, why in the world do you think that you can get worse dirt
> off of the records????? Eyeglasses are the best case scenario -- the
> EASIEST stuff to clean off and saliva can't do it properly. And you
> think that saliva can clean the dirt off of your admittedly much dirtier
> records????? Are you sober???? Do you realize that you are suggesting
> the use of saliva to clean records???
>
> Greg Butler--- now you are just sounding stupid - have you actualy ever
> cleaned a really dirty 78? I can assure you saliva does work and works
> without damaging the record
>
> Michael Biel--- For over 60 years I have cleaned records using properly
> designed cleaning materials and surfactants like Disc Doctor and special
> 78 formulas, brushes designed to get into the grooves, and several
> different machines. And I never had to resort to clearing out debris by
> running a record back and forth and back and forth like you do because
> your spit and a cloth are not really cleaning the records. You admit
> that you use nothing but spit on initial cleaning and then have to rinse
> the record with distilled water. It is not working. If you still have
> stuff in the grooves after cleaning it is not working.
>
> Greg Butler--- You sound a bit obsessive Michael with obviously lots of
> time on your hands - when you are dealing with as many records as I do a
> deep clean valet using processes that might damage the records is not a
> realistic option. I suppose it just depends upon how OCD you are.
>
> Michael Biel--- SPIT? How much saliva do you actually produce if you
> clean a thousand records a month with spit?
>
> Greg Butler--- I seee it is the idea of using spit that revolts you Mr
> Monk
>
> Michael Biel--- It doesn't revolt me, it is STUPID.
>
> Mark Cederquist--- Everyone's got their own particular method of
> cleaning 78's.
>
> Michael Biel--- Everybody thought you were joking when you mentioned it,
> just like the joke about using chicken soup. Or 40 grit sandpaper. But
> it is becoming a sad fact that you are serious about this, and that this
> is going to be how you are known worldwide -- the guy who cleans his
> records with saliva.
>
> Greg Butler--- You do sound a bit like a cracked record Michael
> obsessing about this subject as if your way is the only way! My
> philosophy is if you can avoid any sort of aggresive solvent on these
> precious records you should - and a natural enzymatic cleaner works for
> me no matter how much you find it unpleasant.
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> So, my question to the ARSC Technical Committee and to the Library of
> Congress group which gave a presentation on cleaning lacquer discs, is
> SPIT a good cleaning fluid for shellac 78s???
>
> Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com
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