[78-L] Early r'n'r with prominent guitar - Crayton

Sat Mar 8 13:35:59 PST 2014

PeeWee's Wild from early 1950 (not on youtube; see Ace cd/lp) features Crayton dubbing  a 2nd guitar part.  Let's not forget that Les Paul was introducing production that some were taking into account as well.

As for Poppa Stoppa, the climaxing high notes are the highest guitar I've run across on a late '40s/early '50s side...

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 3/8/14, Joe Scott <joenscott at mail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [78-L] Early r'n'r with prominent guitar
 To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
 Date: Saturday, March 8, 2014, 3:43 PM

 Cary, this is one of my favorite
 r'n'r recordings with prominent guitar from before Sun,
 "Poppa Stoppa" by Pee Wee Crayton:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBLopQaMFxM

 This one is perhaps the very first r'n'r recording with two
 guitars on it, "Rockin' All Day" by Jimmy McCracklin, and
 you can tell Chuck Berry may have heard it:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kidPDDHEpR0

 The guitarists on that one are apparently Robert Kelton and
 Lafayette Thomas. Kelton was one of the guitarists, with
 Pete Lewis, John Lee Hooker, and others, who made distorted
 guitar rapidly more popular in R&B in general during
 about 1949-1950. When Howlin' Wolf and Junior Parker got the
 opportunity to record, distorted guitar was already popular
 in R&B, so it's not surprising they used it. (The
 guitarist on Joe Turner's "Jumpin' At The Jubilee" from
 about 12/49 used distortion too, particularly when he wasn't
 soloing, just slashing, so that would be an example of
 distorted guitar in rock and roll before "Rocket 88.")
 Kelton was very unusual among hip electric lead guitarists
 in that he was about the same age as Sleepy John Estes.

 Joseph Scott
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Joe Scott
 Sent: 03/08/14 01:20 PM
 To: 78-L Mail List
 Subject: Re: [78-L] Escott, was Arnold Covey

 Roughly half of all R&B of 1950 and 1951 had a backbeat.
 1945 and 1946, virtually no one except Lionel Hampton, Buddy
 Johnson, and sessions by Hamp's sidemen such as Milt
 Buckner's late '46 session. The rise of backbeat in black
 music during 1947 on is, for one thing, why in '50s-'60s
 jazz recordings we have to listen to backbeats behind the
 likes of Lester Young even when it's supposed to be a swing
 session (sometimes they'd go with a subdued backbeat, which
 also had almost zero to do with 1929-1946 swing). Haley and
 the Treniers (who were friendly with each other early on)
 both got it from earlier people like Jimmy Preston, Roy
 Brown, Joe Turner, it was a normal part of this new fad
 sound Bill had taken an interest in after Joe (another
 friend of his, eventually) etc. already had. Joseph Scott
 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cary Ginell Sent:
 03/07/14 10:23 PM To: 78-L Mail List Subject: Re: [78-L]
 Escott, was Arnold Covey That's why it's not good to
 generalize when talk
  ing about rock 'n' roll. I just got a record by the
 Treniers of "Good Rockin' Tonight" and it's decidedly
 emphasizing the off-beat (2 & 4). Bill Haley's records
 were like that as well. This element could be found in
 western swing as well - the 2/4 beat that was made for
 dancing. Listen to any Chuck Berry record and you'll that as
 well. Cary Ginell On Mar 7, 2014, at 7:11 AM, Ron L'Herault
 <lherault at verizon.net>
 wrote: > I wonder too if there are subtleties of rhythm
 that changed. Jump bands > still swing from what I hear
 of them and rock bands tend to my ears to be > more
 1-2-3-4 with little to no emphasis on any one particular
 beat. > > Ron L > > -----Original Message-----
 > From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
 > [mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com]
 On Behalf Of Mark Bardenwerper > Sent: Thursday, March
 06, 2014 11:59 PM > To: 78-L Mail List > Subject: Re:
 [78-L] Escott, was Arnold Covey > > On 3/6/2014 9:01
 PM, Ca ry Ginell wrote: >> It has more to do with the
   role the guitarist plays, in my opinion, vs. >
 tenor sax. Just having electric guitar in a group isn't the
 sole criteria. I > don't think it's possible to define
 what is rock n roll and what isn't and > have everyone
 agree. I listened to Rock This Joint by Preston and it still
 > sounds like R&B/jump to me. >> >> Cary
 >> > Can't help but agree with this in principal.
 Blues/R&B/jump had the same > rhythm and chord
 progressions going way back. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdZYayVhXVQ > I think
 it was almost entirely how it was marketed and brought into
 > prominence. We might easily agree that what we might
 recognize as rock > probably was being played somewhere
 before there were mikes around to record > it. And I
 think also it has to do with when it became acceptable to a
 larger > white audience through various means, possible
 taken on as a symbol of > independence to an emerging
 adolescent culture (read, James Dean). AND when > it
 supplanted the old dance music (though I 
  remember every guy wanted to > "slow dance" with is
 favorite chick even in the 60's when I was a lad). > >
 -- > Mark L. Bardenwerper, Sr. > >
 Technology...thoughtfully, responsibly. > > Visit me
 at http://citroen.cappyfabrics.com > >
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