[78-L] Olivier on HMV copyright questions
Maria Fletcher
riajfletcher at gmail.com
Fri Jan 10 14:15:18 PST 2014
Many thanks to Kristjan and David for your replies, that is really appreciated!
David, I do have a 12” disc HMV EB 592 which is Walton’s Funeral March from Hamlet - with no dialogue, and the Philharmonic Orchestra - manufactured specifically for the Gramophone Co in Sydney, NSW.
Flip side is Olivier and Holloway from Hamlet - “How long has thou been grave maker”
Fabulous recordings regardless!
Many thanks again
Maria
On 10 Jan 2014, at 6:00 am, 78-l-request at klickitat.78online.com wrote:
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> 1. Re: 78-L Digest, Vol 64, Issue 5 ...Phil EVERLY
> (kil at roadrunner.com)
> 2. Re: Bird with Stringency (Julian Vein)
> 3. Olivier on HMV Copyright Questions (Maria Fletcher)
> 4. Re: Olivier on HMV Copyright Questions (Kristjan Saag)
> 5. Re: Olivier on HMV Copyright Questions (David Lennick)
> 6. EDVR (Ron L'Herault)
> 7. Re: EDVR (Nathan Coy)
> 8. Re: Bird with Stringency (Joe Scott)
> 9. Re: 78-L Digest, Vol 64, Issue 5 ...Phil EVERLY (Joe Scott)
> 10. Re: Conga drummers [was Bird with Stringency] (Julian Vein)
> 11. Re: Bird with Stringency (Eric Goldberg)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 16:04:23 -0500
> From: <kil at roadrunner.com>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] 78-L Digest, Vol 64, Issue 5 ...Phil EVERLY
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID: <20140108210424.H3L02.40712.root at cdptpa-web03>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> My only point was that the Bryants were quite well known songwriters, and would arguably still be in the Songwriters Hall of Fame even without the Everly hits. I'm from the northeast USA, but I was still enjoying the Bryants long before 1957, i.e. OUT BEHIND THE BARN, HAVE A GOOD TIME, HEY JOE. That said, I agree with everything you say, and I'm sure the Bryants enjoyed a much more comfortable retirement because of the Everlys.
> RayK
>>
> ---- Joe Scott wrote:
>> I'm with Lennick, (1) the Everlys were special on their non-Bryants material, such as "Cathy's Clown," written by Don Everly, which influenced the Beatles' "Please Please Me," and (2) I know of the Bryants because the Everlys performed their songs so well, not because a "How's The World Treating You" or "Raining In My Heart" represented a small fraction of all Elvis's or Buddy's material. Elvis also recorded five songs cowritten by Red West, whose qualifications were that he was a friend of Elvis's from high school, so let's hear it for Red West.
>> Joseph Scott
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> And because Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly, Skeeter Davis, Glen Campbell, Frankie Laine, Eddy Arnold, Jim Reeves, Sonny James, Billy Walker, Webb Pierce, Roy Clark, Carl Smith, Cristy Lane and Ray Price recorded their songs. RayK > ---- David Lennick wrote: > Hardly. They were great songs but you know of the Bryants only BECAUSE the > Everlys recorded their songs. > > dl > > On 1/5/2014 3:19 PM, Nigel Burlinson wrote: > > Can we please have a cheer of thanks to Felice& Boudleaux BRYANT > > for THEIR contribution as the writers of: > > > > "All I Have To Do Is Dream" > > "Bye Bye Love" > > "Bird Dog" > > "Love Of My Life" > > "Poor Jenny" > > "Take A Message To Mary" > > "Wake up Little Susie" > > > > Without them the Everlys would never have been anything special! _______________________________________________
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 23:15:04 +0000
> From: Julian Vein <julianvein at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Bird with Stringency
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID: <52CDDBF8.3020609 at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 08/01/14 19:17, Eric Goldberg wrote:
>> My friend Dave Uchitel played viola for a couple of years on the Bird with Strings club engagements in NYC. He never understood jazz at all, in fact he said of Bird "I hear he was great but he never played the same way twice" I guess all those winters with the Metropolitan Opera were the standard. Repetition (no pun intended) of repertoire was not an issue.
>>
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
> ======================
> Uchitel recorded many sessions with Tommy Dorsey and Harry James before
> Bird. Surely he must've picked up some feeling for or understanding of
> jazz with them? I would imagine the stuff he played with Bird he
> could've done in his sleep.
>
> That seems to be one area of research that hasn't been covered: string
> players in swing bands, though I recall Teddy Blume was interviewed once.
>
> Julian Vein
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 21:13:04 +1000
> From: Maria Fletcher <riajfletcher at gmail.com>
> Subject: [78-L] Olivier on HMV Copyright Questions
> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> Message-ID: <A14CE0E7-D3CE-46B9-927B-847F70D9948C at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Dear listers
>
> I have several discs of Olivier on HMV from Henry V and Hamlet, and would like to do a creative commons sound project using recordings lifted from these original 78 rpm discs.
>
> Can anyone advise me on the expiry or not, of copyright on these particular recordings?
>
> regards
> Maria
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 12:34:21 +0100
> From: Kristjan Saag <saag at telia.com>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Olivier on HMV Copyright Questions
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID: <52CE893D.6090903 at telia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Definitley PD for the recordings (as for all recordings made before
> 1963). And no copyright claims from the author either, unless the guy
> who wrote Hamlet and Henry V died later than 1944.
> This goes for a European project. Don't know about conditions in the
> Colonies.
> Kristjan
>
>
> On 2014-01-09 12:13, Maria Fletcher wrote:
>> Dear listers
>>
>> I have several discs of Olivier on HMV from Henry V and Hamlet, and would like to do a creative commons sound project using recordings lifted from these original 78 rpm discs.
>>
>> Can anyone advise me on the expiry or not, of copyright on these particular recordings?
>>
>> regards
>> Maria
>> _______________________________________________
>> 78-L mailing list
>> 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>> http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 08:18:30 -0500
> From: David Lennick <dlennick at sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Olivier on HMV Copyright Questions
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP81C31EF521FDC7FCB6BA3EBDB00 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed
>
> The sound recordings are PD everywhere but the US, and the text is obviously
> free, but Walton's music will be copyrighted everywhere. By the way, a little
> known set of promotional discs issued to radio stations contains about 12
> minutes of Walton's Hamlet music sans dialogue. White label discs numbered FM 1
> through 4. This series later had J. Arthur Rank labels.
>
> You'll find quieter pressings of Hamlet and Henry V on RCA Victor. Avoid the
> 12" lp as it's missing a lot of material.
>
> dl
>
> On 1/9/2014 6:13 AM, Maria Fletcher wrote:
>> Dear listers
>>
>> I have several discs of Olivier on HMV from Henry V and Hamlet, and would like to do a creative commons sound project using recordings lifted from these original 78 rpm discs.
>>
>> Can anyone advise me on the expiry or not, of copyright on these particular recordings?
>>
>> regards
>> Maria
>> __________________________
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 12:30:31 -0500
> From: "Ron L'Herault" <lherault at verizon.net>
> Subject: [78-L] EDVR
> To: "'78-L Mail List'" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID: <000a01cf0d60$7fa58850$7ef098f0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> I just digitized a Victor Orthophonic disk of the Brown University band.
> EDVR gives recording place and date (10-7-1927, Church Building) but if I am
> reading the page right, does not have a digital copy. Do they want digital
> copies from the general public? Who do you ask?
>
> Ron L
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 09:54:46 -0800
> From: Nathan Coy <nathanpcoy at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] EDVR
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID:
> <CAKQkP5At3chYQwFYG_QT=72zhKGQA0jm=2vqCru6RuqCA3=b5Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I think the answer might be on the about page:
> http://victor.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/aboutedvr
>
> If that doesnt answer it you should probably contact the performing arts
> curator/project director for a formal answer. Contact on this page:
> http://www.library.ucsb.edu/special-collections/curators-staff
>
>
>
> Nathan Coy
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Ron L'Herault <lherault at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> I just digitized a Victor Orthophonic disk of the Brown University band.
>> EDVR gives recording place and date (10-7-1927, Church Building) but if I
>> am
>> reading the page right, does not have a digital copy. Do they want digital
>> copies from the general public? Who do you ask?
>>
>> Ron L
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 78-L mailing list
>> 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>> http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 13:18:45 -0500
> From: "Joe Scott" <joenscott at mail.com>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Bird with Stringency
> To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID: <20140109181845.284480 at gmx.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On those T. Dorsey and James (and Krupa and...) recordings the extra guys might as well be playing on a movie soundtrack behind a pop singer, they have no more to do with that jazz rhythmically than (unfortunately) Jack Costanzo had to with the swing the King Cole Trio had previously had. John Lewis managed to do an actual creative fusion with strings in the late '50s, "Sketch" by the MJQ with the Beaux Arts String Quartet, in which the strings seemed interested in swinging and could; if there's something comparable from the '30s-'40s I'd like to hear it.
> Joseph Scott
> P.S. Third stream music was invented, of course, by Paul Whiteman and his peers. The idea that the likes of Kid Ory could be improved upon by becoming a Rimskyish trombone section instead was revolutionary, wrong, brilliant...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Julian Vein
> Sent: 01/08/14 04:15 PM
> To: 78-L Mail List
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Bird with Stringency
>
> On 08/01/14 19:17, Eric Goldberg wrote: > My friend Dave Uchitel played viola for a couple of years on the Bird with Strings club engagements in NYC. He never understood jazz at all, in fact he said of Bird "I hear he was great but he never played the same way twice" I guess all those winters with the Metropolitan Opera were the standard. Repetition (no pun intended) of repertoire was not an issue. > > > Eric > > ====================== Uchitel recorded many sessions with Tommy Dorsey and Harry James before Bird. Surely he must've picked up some feeling for or understanding of jazz with them? I would imagine the stuff he played with Bird he could've done in his sleep. That seems to be one area of research that hasn't been covered: string players in swing bands, though I recall Teddy Blume was interviewed once. Julian Vein _______________________________________________ 78-L mailing list 78-L at klickitat.78online.com http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 13:37:45 -0500
> From: "Joe Scott" <joenscott at mail.com>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] 78-L Digest, Vol 64, Issue 5 ...Phil EVERLY
> To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID: <20140109183745.281410 at gmx.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I think mainstream country music of 1950-1953 doesn't get enough credit if you consider how much Carl Smith influenced Buddy Holly, Bob Newman (e.g. "Haulin' Freight") seems to have influenced Carl Perkins, Ernie Ford contributed to the acceptance of backbeat in non-R&B music, and so on. Back then it wasn't all about Hank Williams, or western swing, or the "high lonesome sound," or being the fastest picker, or when Haley first heard something that sounded like the Treniers, or any of those holes we sometimes like to crawl up, it was about whatever the "hillbilly" nation was listening to (from Piano Red to Dean Martin). To put it another way, Carl Perkins was the kind of guy to listen to the radio and the jukebox, not the kind of guy you'd think was probably researching a book on something he thought was "authentic."
> Joseph Scott
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kil at roadrunner.com
> Sent: 01/08/14 02:04 PM
> To: 78-L Mail List
> Subject: Re: [78-L] 78-L Digest, Vol 64, Issue 5 ...Phil EVERLY
>
> My only point was that the Bryants were quite well known songwriters, and would arguably still be in the Songwriters Hall of Fame even without the Everly hits. I'm from the northeast USA, but I was still enjoying the Bryants long before 1957, i.e. OUT BEHIND THE BARN, HAVE A GOOD TIME, HEY JOE. That said, I agree with everything you say, and I'm sure the Bryants enjoyed a much more comfortable retirement because of the Everlys. RayK > ---- Joe Scott wrote: > I'm with Lennick, (1) the Everlys were special on their non-Bryants material, such as "Cathy's Clown," written by Don Everly, which influenced the Beatles' "Please Please Me," and (2) I know of the Bryants because the Everlys performed their songs so well, not because a "How's The World Treating You" or "Raining In My Heart" represented a small fraction of all Elvis's or Buddy's material. Elvis also recorded five songs cowritten by Red West, whose qualifications were that he was a friend of Elvis's from high school, so le
> t's hear it for Red West. > Joseph Scott > ----- Original Message ----- > And because Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly, Skeeter Davis, Glen Campbell, Frankie Laine, Eddy Arnold, Jim Reeves, Sonny James, Billy Walker, Webb Pierce, Roy Clark, Carl Smith, Cristy Lane and Ray Price recorded their songs. RayK > ---- David Lennick wrote: > Hardly. They were great songs but you know of the Bryants only BECAUSE the > Everlys recorded their songs. > > dl > > On 1/5/2014 3:19 PM, Nigel Burlinson wrote: > > Can we please have a cheer of thanks to Felice& Boudleaux BRYANT > > for THEIR contribution as the writers of: > > > > "All I Have To Do Is Dream" > > "Bye Bye Love" > > "Bird Dog" > > "Love Of My Life" > > "Poor Jenny" > > "Take A Message To Mary" > > "Wake up Little Susie" > > > > Without them the Everlys would never have been anything special! _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ 78-L mailing list 78-L at klickitat.78online.com ht
> tp://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 19:41:16 +0000
> From: Julian Vein <julianvein at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Conga drummers [was Bird with Stringency]
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID: <52CEFB5C.8030108 at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 09/01/14 18:18, Joe Scott wrote:
>> On those T. Dorsey and James (and Krupa and...) recordings the extra guys might as well be playing on a movie soundtrack behind a pop singer, they have no more to do with that jazz rhythmically than (unfortunately) Jack Costanzo had to with the swing the King Cole Trio had previously had. John Lewis managed to do an actual creative fusion with strings in the late '50s, "Sketch" by the MJQ with the Beaux Arts String Quartet, in which the strings seemed interested in swinging and could; if there's something comparable from the '30s-'40s I'd like to hear it.
>> Joseph Scott
>> ===========================
> Joe,
> Interesting that you should mention Costanzo. Conga drummers added to an
> already complete rhythm section are one of my pet hates. Prestige was
> particular fond of employing 'em. I get the feeling that they were
> brought in as a favour, rather than for any musical purpose.
>
> Julian Vein
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 11:44:32 -0800 (PST)
> From: Eric Goldberg <ericgoldie2 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Bird with Stringency
> To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Message-ID:
> <1389296672.51352.YahooMailNeo at web163605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I don't think that Dave could have swung if he was being hanged.
> Unfortunately, Dave broke his arm before Dorsey made a film , whose name I do not recall, so Dave was not in the movie.
> He told me stories about the Dorsey band and Buddy Rich and Dorsey himself, but he never showed any love for the music itself. Of course it was often goose eggs, and he was a violist.
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 9, 2014 1:19 PM, Joe Scott <joenscott at mail.com> wrote:
>
> On those T. Dorsey and James (and Krupa and...) recordings the extra guys might as well be playing on a movie soundtrack behind a pop singer, they have no more to do with that jazz rhythmically than (unfortunately) Jack Costanzo had to with the swing the King Cole Trio had previously had. John Lewis managed to do an actual creative fusion with strings in the late '50s, "Sketch" by the MJQ with the Beaux Arts String Quartet, in which the strings seemed interested in swinging and could; if there's something comparable from the '30s-'40s I'd like to hear it.
> Joseph Scott
> P.S. Third stream music was invented, of course, by Paul Whiteman and his peers. The idea that the likes of Kid Ory could be improved upon by becoming a Rimskyish trombone section instead was revolutionary, wrong, brilliant...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Julian Vein
> Sent: 01/08/14 04:15 PM
> To: 78-L Mail List
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Bird with Stringency
>
> On 08/01/14 19:17, Eric Goldberg wrote: > My friend Dave Uchitel played viola for a couple of years on the Bird with Strings club engagements in NYC. He never understood jazz at all, in fact he said of Bird "I hear he was great but he never played the same way twice" I guess all those winters with the Metropolitan Opera were the standard. Repetition (no pun intended) of repertoire was not an issue. > > > Eric > > ====================== Uchitel recorded many sessions with Tommy Dorsey and Harry James before Bird. Surely he must've picked up some feeling for or understanding of jazz with them? I would imagine the stuff he played with Bird he could've done in his sleep. That seems to be one area of research that hasn't been covered: string players in swing bands, though I recall Teddy Blume was interviewed once. Julian Vein _______________________________________________ 78-L mailing list 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
> http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
> _______________________________________________
> 78-L mailing list
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> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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