[78-L] Approximating 78s age by physical characteristics

david.diehl at hensteeth.com david.diehl at hensteeth.com
Mon Mar 4 00:31:13 PST 2013

>> added eccentric lead-out groove

>Victor started around 1921 with an eccentric groove, but as the 20s went
on others had lead outs but not all were eccentric. By 1933 I think
most had eccentrics.

Victor had a patented automatic brake system which included the eccentric groove. No one but Victor and its overseas affiliates were licensed to use it. In November of 1934 RCA announced that it would begin allowing other companies to use it. No reason was given but I assume there was some kind of quid pro quo with the jukebox industry. I've seen European discs from as late as 1937 with simple runouts.

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-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Biel [mailto:mbiel at mbiel.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 11:51 AM
To: '78-L Mail List'
Subject: Re: [78-L] Approximating 78s age by physical characteristics

From: "neechevoneeznayou at gmail.com" > perhaps solid or paper core (WW2 vintage Columbias for instance)No, laminated records started long before WWII.> thickness. size. large records were early, such as 14, 16, and 20"> joe salernoDepends on what you mean by early. These answers were not much of ahelp. 14-inch were made briefly in 1906, but again Victor had some 14"ETs in 1932-33. 16-inch soundtrack disc began in 1926 but continued allthe way through into the 1960s. There were some Italian 20-nch discs in1904 I understand, but the Pathe 20-inch discs were in the mid to lateteens.On 3/3/2013 12:51 AM, David London wrote:>> I would like to know if it possible to guess approximately how old a 78 is>> by some of it's physical characteristics. For example, here's a list of>> some things in common with most 78 records, that seem to change in>> correlation to age from oldest to newest.>>>> Start point: one-sided records, no lead out groove,no paper labelVictor Red Seals were mostly single-sided until 1923, but few poprecords were single sided after 1911 or 12. Berliners in the 1890s had no paper label, but neither did the 1915-1920Little Wonders or Edison Diamond Discs (give or take 2 years).>> large paper labelBrunswick started to use smaller labels with their first electricals,but other companies continued with large labels thru the 20s.>> lead-out groove addedThe Europeans had thick heavy and FAST lead outs before 1910.>> added eccentric lead-out grooveVictor started around 1921 with an eccentric groove, but as the 20s wenton others had lead outs but not all were eccentric. By 1933 I thinkmost had eccentrics.>> change to small paper label See above.>> added lead-in grooveThose started around 1933, but I have a 1929 Ruth Etting Columbia withan experimental lead in.>> first laminated pressingsColumbia and American were doing laminated pressings in maybe 1902 or 3. The Columbia Marconi Velvet-Tone flexible plastic discs in 1907 werelaminated. But Columbia was doing solid pressings as well until theintroduction of the New Process in 1923.>> Is it possible to put approximate dates - even roughly like early/mid/late>> which decade, against things like this, when they were first/last used>> commonly? Are there other indicators of age that could be added to this>> list?Obviously the introduction of electrical recording in 1925 (exceptHarmony and Edison) is a good indicator.Mike Biel mbiel at mbiel.com _______________________________________________78-L mailing list78-L at klickitat.78online.comhttp://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l

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