[78-L] Approximating 78s age by physical characteristics

[David London]

Thanks for all this info.  I have started a simple spreadsheet to 
collect all the info and it is already helpful.

You mentioned Europe having heavy lead-out grooves early.  I have some 
of those early records - yes, they are very old.  It does show that 
perhaps some of these things occurred at different times in different 
countries - especially earlier on.



On 04/03/13 03:51, Michael Biel wrote:
> From: "neechevoneeznayou at gmail.com" <neechevoneeznayou at gmail.com>
>> perhaps solid or paper core (WW2 vintage Columbias for instance)
> No, laminated records started long before WWII.
>
>> thickness. size. large records were early, such as 14, 16, and 20"
>> joe salerno
> Depends on what you mean by early.  These answers were not much of a
> help.  14-inch were made briefly in 1906, but again Victor had some 14"
> ETs in 1932-33.  16-inch soundtrack disc began in 1926 but continued all
> the way through into the 1960s.  There were some Italian 20-nch discs in
> 1904 I understand, but the Pathe 20-inch discs were in the mid to late
> teens.
>
> On 3/3/2013 12:51 AM, David London wrote:
>>> I would like to know if it possible to guess approximately how old a 78 is
>>> by some of it's physical characteristics. For example, here's a list of
>>> some things in common with most 78 records, that seem to change in
>>> correlation to age from oldest to newest.
>>>
>>> Start point: one-sided records, no lead out groove,no paper label
> Victor Red Seals were mostly single-sided until 1923, but few pop
> records were single sided after 1911 or 12.
>
> Berliners in the 1890s had no paper label, but neither did the 1915-1920
> Little Wonders or Edison Diamond Discs (give or take 2 years).
>
>>> large paper label
> Brunswick started to use smaller labels with their first electricals,
> but other companies continued with large labels thru the 20s.
>
>>> lead-out groove added
> The Europeans had thick heavy and FAST lead outs before 1910.
>
>>> added eccentric lead-out groove
> Victor started around 1921 with an eccentric groove, but as the 20s went
> on others had lead outs but not all were eccentric.  By 1933 I think
> most had eccentrics.
>
>>> change to small paper label
>   
> See above.
>
>>> added lead-in groove
> Those started around 1933, but I have a 1929 Ruth Etting Columbia with
> an experimental lead in.
>
>>> first laminated pressings
> Columbia and American were doing laminated pressings in maybe 1902 or 3.
>   The Columbia Marconi Velvet-Tone flexible plastic discs in 1907 were
> laminated. But Columbia was doing solid pressings as well until the
> introduction of the New Process in 1923.
>
>>> Is it possible to put approximate dates - even roughly like early/mid/late
>>> which decade, against things like this, when they were first/last used
>>> commonly? Are there other indicators of age that could be added to this
>>> list?
> Obviously the introduction of electrical recording in 1925 (except
> Harmony and Edison) is a good indicator.
>
> Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com
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