[78-L] Fake stereo

[Michael Biel]

I have all three of the Toscanini electronic stereo LPs and they worked
out pretty well, considering the mono source.  They are not anywhere
near as convincing as the two REAL stereo recordings that Toscanini made
of course.  The description of using comb filtering is not at all
anything like what you are calling "L/R delay".  The purpose was not
time delay distinctions but tonal filtering.  These three Toscanini LPs
were done with care and do move some instruments towards the left and
some to the right, leaving a balanced overall frequency response on both
channels.  But because there are phase differentials introduced by the
comb filtering, they cannot be combined back to mono. 

Most phony stereo that followed tended to just use filtering to bring
the highs to the left and the lows to the right, sometimes adding echo
and/or reverb to one or the other channels, or both with some
differences. In general most companies had several different formulas,
so what RCA used for Ted's Glenn Miller LP is different from what they
used for classical and from popular vocals like Elvis and Perry Como. 
Many of RCA's in general did most of the manipulation on the right
channel and the left can be played alone with some bass boost.  The echo
is often very obvious with discretely heard repeats. Capitol's Duophonic
tended to be more sophisticated than RCA and if they used reverb it was
tight with no discernible repetitions.

You might ask WHY they did it -- they always claimed "Popular Demand". 
That is a LIE that I got several producers to admit to at the 1977 ARSC.
 The companies found that mono records had been removed from the monthly
Schwann and moved over to the semi-annual Supplementary.  Doing
electronic stereo was how to get them back -- but after a while Schwann
caught on and removed them again to the renamed quarterly Schwann2. 
Sooooooo, the end result is that THE COMPANIES STOPPED MARKING IF THE
RECORDS WERE STEREO, MONO, OR ELECTRONIC STEREO. 

When the CDs came out, FINALLY we got some public push-back, and Wayne
Green of Digital Audio magazine especially, shamed the companies putting
out electronic stereo CDs.  This included the first Elvis CDs.  So RCA
deleted them and put them out "Restored To Original Mono".  The deleted
versions were the first bargain drilled CDs I ever saw, and I bought
them.  Although marked Electronic Stereo THEY WERE BEAUTIFUL MONO.  And
it turns out that the mono reissues went back to original tapes that
were worn out and had highs that swished in and out.  They were crummy. 
The first batch they deleted had been made from very early work dubs
that were in beautiful condition, and they just marked the CDs as
electronic stereo because that is what marketing told them to do.  I
don't think the Elvis electronic stereo like I have on LP ever hit CD
nomatter how they were labelled!  And I think those three Toscanini LPs
have never come in any other form than the original very rare LME LPs.

Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com

 


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [78-L] Fake stereo
From: Royal Pemberton <ampex354 at gmail.com>


AFAIK there are some classical albums which did use that L/R delay, and
they are on Capitol (whether on Capitol or Angel I can't say as what I
heard was from an excerpt on the sampler/promo that first hawked
Duophonic).

On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Ryan Wolfe <nextset4 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Somewhere, I read an account by guy charged with what were the first fake
> stereo releases for RCA.
>
> He had Toscanini stuff to to work with and described his laborious and
> time consuming attempts
> manipulating a comb filter to try to take the mono sources and put them
> into a convincing and somewhat varied stereo presentation.
> Then RCA wanted him to do that with all their stuff, which was going to be
> impractical, so he / they opted for something easier.
>
> I've never heard a classical album that took a mono source and put it on
> a true L / R delay, just the ones that use the bass in one channel /
> treble in the other approach. Including things like Toscanini.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ted Kneebone <tkneebone1 at abe.midco.net>
>
> I have at least one LP of Glenn Miller done in
> what is called "enhanced" stereo, or something
> like that. One channel is delayed slightly. The
> effect is supposed to sound like an echo. It
> really ruins what was perfectly good mono sound --
> and surely is not stereo.
> When i play this disc, I listen to only one
> channel. That's the only way it makes sense.
> I think they tried this "enhanced" process with
> some of the Toscanini recordings. If the Miller
> records are a sample, I would not own the Toscanini.
> Ted
> Ted Kneebone